BYU vs. Utah

November 22, 2008    By: Geoff J @ 5:10 pm   Category: Sports

Ok, game’s over and BYU got crushed. Here’s my conclusion: Live by the Max, Die by the Max. BYU had six turnovers and Max Hall was credited for all of them. That isn’t a good way to win a big game.

Congrats to the Utes (and to the MWC) for another pending BCS game invite.

And congrats to the Cougs for a third straight 10-win regular season.

And best wishes to Mike Reed who looked like he was seriously injured at the end of the game.


  1. It’s not looking good for BYU.

    Comment by Dan — November 22, 2008 @ 6:24 pm

  2. Max Hall looks like he hasn’t played a college game — and the loss is directly his fault. The Defensive scheme with backs once again 10-15 yards off has been a joke.

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 7:12 pm

  3. Hall is the MVP for the game…..for the Utes.

    Seriously, that was horrible.

    Comment by Ben — November 22, 2008 @ 7:15 pm

  4. Did Collie not live as well off the field this year?

    Comment by a random John — November 22, 2008 @ 7:19 pm

  5. Collie lived just fine — he owns the MWC and BYU receiving records. You are a total jerkwad. Take your comments somewhere else.

    I trust that BYU will remember how classless the UofU was to go for a TD instead of a field goal. Their fans lack class as well — running onto the field and taking down a goalpost before the game is even over.

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

  6. arJ,

    I’m afraid Blake is right in this case. You are indeed a total jerkwad tonight.

    Comment by Geoff J — November 22, 2008 @ 7:38 pm

  7. That fourth quarter, ouch. I was busy until then and logged on to see what was happening.


    Comment by Stephen M (Ethesis) — November 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm

  8. [Edited]

    Both teams have had great seasons. It was a joke.

    Comment by a random John — November 22, 2008 @ 8:00 pm

  9. I’m continually surprised that Collie’s comments continue to get derided, or that they were all that controversial in the first place, at least amongst fellow Mormons. Do we not all have stories of living righteously and praying for help before big job interviews or law school exams, and then feeling like the Lord blessed us and helped us because of it? If He cares about helping someone on their Ph.D dissertation, he cares about helping someone on the football field as well. Collie didn’t say that God cares about which teams wins, he was simply stating the truth that when we do the right things, He helps us fulfill our potential. Why is this such a bad thing?

    And even if you don’t agree with such a sentiment, it has been snidely brought up on each and every one one of these posts this season. It’s not clever or original. It’s very very old.

    Comment by Katie M. — November 22, 2008 @ 8:14 pm

  10. On another note, thank you Geoff for always putting up these posts. Not having the Mtn. network, they have been my source for the goings on of my beloved Cougs. I really appreciate the updates.

    Comment by Katie M. — November 22, 2008 @ 8:16 pm

  11. I went to the U. after being a long time Y. follower. About that time (late 80s) I went to a Utah v. BYU game at the U. and the shockingly boorish anti-BYU behavior of many of the U. fans there sealed my preference for the Y. forever.

    It was as if they felt their team was carrying out a proxy vendetta on their behalf against the LDS Church. At Y. games the worst I had to complain about were fans that spent all game second guessing the coaching staff.

    If there is (or was) a Holy War between these two schools, it U. vs. Y. all the way. I don’t think the Y. folks attach any metaphysical consequence to the rivalry at all.

    Comment by Mark D. — November 22, 2008 @ 8:20 pm

  12. Katie,

    It was the self righteous attitude that caught the attention of so many. I was simply making light of it, only to be called a most vulgar term. I really don’t think that my comment rose to 1/10th the level of “jerkwad” yet it merited censorship, which is odd.

    Congrats to both teams for great years, and good luck to both in whatever bowls they end up in. Having both be great makes the contest that much more enjoyable.

    Comment by a random John — November 22, 2008 @ 8:31 pm

  13. Unfortunately, this was the first game I’ve watched in over two years, I think. (Thanks to the *stupid* Mtn. racket.)

    Given what happened in this match-up the past two years I can’t feel too bad about the loss, but it was frustrating nonetheless. The thing is, it’s not like BYU was out of its league; they could have won if it weren’t for Hall’s Jekyll and Hyde performance.

    Ditto #3. (Except for the TD fake-out. That was slick.)

    Comment by Jared* — November 22, 2008 @ 8:32 pm

  14. Mark: i had a similar experience. I went to a UofU/BYU game in 1984 when I was in law school. The U. fans began a chant about Pres. Kimball being a fa***t. My asked me what it meant. I said, “it means we’re leaving and never coming back.”

    I thought it had changed. I went two years ago. The U. fans again carried on with vile language and spoke openly of their hatred for the Church and BYU — I remained silent. I decided to leave and never go back. There are undoubtedly a lot of decent U. fans, I just believe that a few good apples won’t outweigh the bigotry of so many that I heard openly deriding their neighbors.

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 9:03 pm

  15. “My asked son me what it meant. I said, “it means we’re leaving and never coming back.”

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 9:04 pm

  16. Blake,

    Given your experiences I find it odd that you are the one that is being vulgar here.

    Comment by a random John — November 22, 2008 @ 9:13 pm

  17. arm lol — jerkwad isn’t vulgar. I’m a U. alum — and your charges of vulgarity. Send me you name and e-mail and I’ll send you a list of words I heard at the UofU games so that you know what vulgarity is.

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 9:26 pm

  18. arm lol — jerkwad isn’t vulgar. I’m a U. alum — and your charges of vulgarity are hilarious given my experience. Send me you name and e-mail and I’ll send you a list of words I heard at the UofU games so that you know what real vulgarity is.

    My send key isn’t working so well.

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 9:27 pm

  19. We are crushing Cal Poly.

    Comment by Eric Russell — November 22, 2008 @ 9:34 pm

  20. Blake,

    Look it up. Or just think it out.

    Comment by a random John — November 22, 2008 @ 9:38 pm

  21. Rarely can you blame the outcome of a game entirely on one person but in this instance Max deserves it. Too bad, but much easier to swallow this way than if they had been undefeated and lost like this.

    I thought it was funny anyhow.

    Jerkwad isn’t vulgar, but it is meant as an insult. Saying that UofU fans do it worse is hardly an adult response.

    Comment by Rusty — November 22, 2008 @ 9:46 pm

  22. I blame Lee Corso.

    Comment by Eric Russell — November 22, 2008 @ 10:00 pm

  23. You’re right Rusty — I wanted and still want adr to just go away.

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 10:23 pm

  24. I agree Rusty, jerkwad isn’t really vulgar — it means jerk but is a more creative and amusing way of saying it. It turns out that jerkwad is also the diss of the week here at the Thang.

    Comment by Geoff J — November 22, 2008 @ 10:26 pm

  25. Personally I’d like to see BYU win but I am very glad I don’t have to listen to Boise State going to another BCS game. Local TV broadcasted the last one a dozen times this past summer.

    Comment by LostinBoise — November 22, 2008 @ 10:35 pm

  26. A painful loss for BYU. OUCH.

    Comment by danithew — November 22, 2008 @ 10:41 pm

  27. Yeah, I admit to being badly influenced by Geoff to use this vulgar, filthy and profane term here so that I could get arj to just go away. Maybe I should just have said: “you’re a total jerk, just go away.”

    Comment by Blake — November 22, 2008 @ 10:53 pm

  28. lol

    Comment by Geoff J — November 22, 2008 @ 11:03 pm

  29. I sold Tee shirts by the gate closest to the visiting teams locker room. I wasn’t there when Utah came in but many of the teams came in using frofanity. San Diego St was the only ones that used both profanity and spit on everything they got close to. New Mexico players and coaches came over and bought hats.

    Of course given the lack of tailgating or ony other activity by the fans anything beyond a handshake or curtsy would seem over the top emotionally to the BYU faithful.

    Comment by Bob W — November 22, 2008 @ 11:15 pm

  30. Jerk wad:
    1. Any fabric or tissue used to collect and/or wipe off semen after masturbation.

    2. The results of jerking off

    Geoff J and Blake: Apparently the two most sheltered guys on the Bloggernacle.

    Comment by Peter LLC — November 23, 2008 @ 1:54 am

  31. Here is your silver lining:

    With Utah winning, the MWC will have a team in the BCS. If BYU had one, the WAC would have a team in the BCS.

    Even with this loss (and/or with a win in a bowl game), BYU will still be in the top 25 (I think). There will still be a bigger MWC presence in the polls than a Big East or ACC presence. It will demonstrate that the MWC is a better football conference. Anything to make the BCS look silly (especially the automatic bids portion) is a plus in my book.

    On another note, I have an impression of Bronco being a great regular season coach, but bad at prepping for “big” games. BYU hasn’t really played well at bowls, on the road vs. ranked teams, even vs. Utah in his era (even the wins were just barely there). On the other hand, Kyle Whittingham is only an okay regular season coach, but he seems to prep his team better for big games (aside from the BYU losses, have they lost another big game? Maybe North Carolina that one year, I don’t remember). In this, I may, of course, be talking out of my hinder (attempting to lower the vulgarity level), but it is a distinct impression that I have.

    Comment by John C. — November 23, 2008 @ 6:22 am

  32. Uh, guys? You’re all assuming that we all had an opportunity to see the game. But many of us did not, and rely on this blog for our information. All I can tell from the above is that the cougs lost and Max really sucked. Could someone at least disclose what the score was? Maybe describe a few specific lowlights?

    Comment by Kevin Barney — November 23, 2008 @ 7:02 am

  33. BYU on the road for a Bowl game + 1 month off = 1 more road loss. No way they end up ranked and maybe not even by the end of the day today. I still go back to the Washington game they barely won against a team that will end the season winless and ranked as the worst team in the nation. Max Hall 6 turnovers in the biggest game of the year unbelievable.

    From Rivals:
    Utah: The Utes finished off a 12-0 regular season with a rout of archrival BYU. The defense had some problems in the first half, but eventually settled down and made life miserable for BYU quarterback Max Hall. Next up for the Utes: a second BCS berth in five seasons, likely in the Sugar Bowl.

    Utah 48 BYU 24
    Hall – 5 ints 1 fumble

    Comment by Bob W — November 23, 2008 @ 7:53 am

  34. Peter LLC — You obviously live in some country other than the US. (Where on earth did you come up with your oh-so-official definition?) Based on my experience with the word in America it means jerk. Now we could dispute the “true” meaning of jerk I suppose… (see definition 7 here — Oh my! So horribly vulgar!)

    Comment by Geoff J — November 23, 2008 @ 8:10 am

  35. Kevin,

    Here is my basic recap of the game. BYU was giving Utah all it could handle. The Cougs were driving for a go-ahead TD at the end of the first half. The Max Hall threw an ugly interception with less than a minute left. The Utes took 20 seconds to add another TD to their lead. In the second half the same thing happened (Max Hall turnovers) like 5 more times. The Ute defense did a very nice job of baiting Hall into bad throws.

    Comment by Geoff J — November 23, 2008 @ 8:28 am

  36. Kevin,

    Here is a good indicator of how close the game should have been:

    Total Yds
    Brigham Young- 419
    Utah – 415

    Pass Yds

    Brigham Young – 205
    Utah – 307

    Rush Yds
    Brigham Young – 214
    Utah – 108

    First Downs
    Brigham Young – 25
    Utah – 27

    Brigham Young – 6
    Utah – 0

    One of these stats is not like the others…

    Comment by Geoff J — November 23, 2008 @ 8:37 am

  37. Mark, re: 11 – “I don’t think the Y. folks attach any metaphysical consequence to the rivalry at all.”

    I would have to disagree with that statement. BYU’s head coach has himself ascribed ‘metaphysical consequence’ to the entire football program. Mendenhall has unequivocally stated that the purpose of the BYU football program is to bring people to Christ.

    Comment by Mack — November 23, 2008 @ 10:25 am

  38. Mack,

    Seeing a higher purpose in coaching young wannabe football stars is not the same as attaching metaphysical consequence to the rivalry. Any evidence Mendanhall has done that?

    Comment by Jacob J — November 23, 2008 @ 11:07 am

  39. Jacob,

    You make a good distinction and my point was that the ‘wannabe football stars’ he’s coaching play in the rivalry so that would be the connection.

    Comment by Mack — November 23, 2008 @ 11:37 am

  40. Geoff J., I don’t see what my country of residence has to do with anything since I’m as American as you are. This is where Jacob J. ought to step in and identify the fallacy you are committing. Maybe it’s worth a separate post?

    Comment by Peter LLC — November 23, 2008 @ 12:05 pm

  41. Hehe. Don’t worry — I wasn’t questioning your citizenship Peter.

    Comment by Geoff J — November 23, 2008 @ 12:10 pm

  42. Peter LLC,

    Love ya man, hope there are no hard feelings. The fact that I created a separate post is a reflection of my love for discussing my own topics (rather than seeing them in a single comment on someone else’s thread).

    If you tell me which fallacy Geoff is committing (I couldn’t find a fallacy specifically for making wild and unfounded accusations) I will try to come up with enough to say about it to make a separate post. As you probably know, calling out Geoff is one of my favorite things to do here, so I am game.

    Comment by Jacob J — November 23, 2008 @ 3:20 pm

  43. I was at the chocolate show so I was checking my iPhone for regular updates. Not being able to see it (since the Mtn still isn’t on Dish and I couldn’t DVR it) I don’t want to say too much.

    A few thoughts. Hall made some big mistakes. Lots of penalties too. Still I was surprised we kept it as competitive as we did. Hall’s weakness was a weakness of all year. (Throwing too low so it’s open to being tipped) That’s partially a coaching mistakes and partially a problem Hall has to work on. Then he appears to have lost concentration. (Not seeing the game, I’m just speculating on this – I’m curious as to how you who did saw it)

    The trick play by Anae was nice.

    But like Geoff said, this all ultimately falls on Hall. The other weaknesses were known. Some people stepped up. Others did not.

    Comment by Clark — November 23, 2008 @ 11:17 pm

  44. Blake,

    Thank you for illustrating why those of use who went to neither school find some BYU fans intolerable. You start off by calling me a term that makes reference to masturbation. Then you justify yourself by saying that someone (obviously not me) called President Kimball something awful. Then you claim that you are innocent and not vulgar.

    The guy that insulted President Kimball would have an easier time claiming that he was saying the Prophet was a bundle of sticks than you’re having now. But again, thank you for creating such a brilliant object lesson.

    Finally, if the vulgar nature of the term was unfamiliar or not obvious to you (which I doubt given that you’re pretty darn smart) I would think that now that it was been made clear to you that you might want to retract your original comment rather than attempt to defend it. If “grow up” merited censorship on this blog then certainly what you’ve said merits an apology.

    Comment by a random John — November 24, 2008 @ 10:17 am

  45. Get over it arJ.

    The only reason I edited your comment is because it was taking this thread toward that retarded debate over Collie’s comment last year. That horse has been beaten more than sufficiently already and I didn’t want to encourage that threadjack.

    And trying to get more mileage out of the etymological fallacy you already committed is pathetic too. On top of that Blake even specifically pointed out your misunderstanding of his intent in comment #27. Again — Get over it. You showed up and made a turdball of a comment when all you had to do was say “Hurray Utes”. I already complimented the team — is it so hard to just be happy for your team? Instead you have to behave like a total jerkweed* and make sure you get that extra kick in while BYU fans are down.

    *I know how deeply sensitive you are about the whole “wad” thing…

    Comment by Geoff J — November 24, 2008 @ 10:29 am

  46. Personally I think that the debate over Collie’s comment is interesting and revealing.

    Comment by a random John — November 24, 2008 @ 11:31 am

  47. and while we’re at it, I promise to “get over it”. Clearly I’m the only one who is at fault here, so I’ll leave this thread as asked. :)

    Comment by a random John — November 24, 2008 @ 11:39 am

  48. Arizona beat BYU in the Las Vegas Bowl tonight. They earned it. Hopefully BYU will be hungry and better next year.

    (I don’t feel like posting on it separately.)

    Comment by Geoff J — December 20, 2008 @ 9:55 pm

  49. Wow. Congratulations to the Utes for manhandling Alabama tonight in the Sugar Bowl. I won’t be surprised if they garner some #1 votes in the AP when the final votes come out.

    And it looks like the Pac 10 redeemed itself nicely going 5-0 in bowl games (while the pathetic Big 10 went 1-5.) The MWC finished up 3-2 this bowl season.

    Comment by Geoff J — January 2, 2009 @ 11:13 pm