39 Comments

1. Well, I feel sufficiently called out. (In the best possible way.)

   Comment by Crystal — May 5, 2005 @ 9:10 pm

2. It was this very sentiment which I drew from that very same chapter that led me to write my sunstone paper. While I barely hint at my original point in it, it was originally meant to encourage us to go beyond mere inspiration to revelation. See here.

   Comment by Jeffrey Giliam — May 5, 2005 @ 9:40 pm

3. “If we can know and see things that the rest of the world cannot know and see because of our direct communication from God what does that make us?”

   It makes you identical to David Koresh, Jim Jones, the Raelians, the Lafferty brothers….

   Comment by Daniel B — May 6, 2005 @ 8:16 am

4. Wow Daniel. You actually believe the true and living God talked to those guys?

   Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 6, 2005 @ 8:27 am

5. Geoff –

   Very moving. I concur. We’ve talked alot about the cultural inhibitions to the Divine. Here you have elucidated the result of those inhibitions – spiritual impotence.

   Comment by J. Stapley — May 6, 2005 @ 9:22 am

6. “Wow Daniel. You actually believe the true and living God talked to those guys?” –

   You’re right. My error. You know and see things that the rest of the world cannot know. Where do I send my 10%?

   Comment by Daniel B — May 6, 2005 @ 12:56 pm

7. J. Stapley said:

   “Here you have elucidated the result of those inhibitions – spiritual impotence.”

   Proclaiming oneself a prophet, seer, and revelator is not the antidote to spiritual impotence, it is the cause.

   Comment by Daniel B — May 6, 2005 @ 1:23 pm

8. Daniel B,

   Have you inquired of the Lord to see where to send your 10%? He is able to give excellent and clear answers to that sort of question.

   Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 6, 2005 @ 1:59 pm

9. I should note that there are two related conversations taking place over at Nine Moons and Unofficial Manifesto. Both are written by thoughtful non-Mormons about the view of Mormonism from the outside and what it would take to believe it. As you can tell, I think we should inquire of hte Lord and get unequivocal answers about lots of things, but there are no more important questions to ask (and get answers to) in this life than these spiritual questions (no matter what religion you belong to).

   Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 6, 2005 @ 2:55 pm

10. “Wow Daniel. You actually believe the true and living God talked to those guys?”

    Actually, He probably did.

    Just because they may not have heard what was intended, doesn’t mean that God didn’t speak to them.

    We’re -all- supposed to be prophets, seers, and revelators, in our own personal way, right?

    You know, Geoff, now that I’ve written that flippant reply, it strikes me that we aren’t all supposed to be prophets, seers and revelators.

    I’ll give you prophet and maybe revelator, but Seers seem to be special. “A seer is greater than a prophet . . . and a gift which is greater can no man have . . . ” (Mosiah 8: 15-18).

    Do you really think that such a great gift would be given to everyone?

    An argument can be made for the benevolence of God, but at the same time, we’re given gifts that suit our talents, and we don’t all have the same talents… or gifts.

    Comment by Crystal — May 6, 2005 @ 3:38 pm

11. I’m glad you asked that, Crystal. I was surprised at how few objections I got for this post. In answer to your question, yes I absolutely think God wants us all to be seers in the full and glorious sense described in Mosiah. In fact the restored gospel has even more shocking news than that — God wants us to become Gods just like him! Now how can we accept that we have the potential to become like God and not accept the potential to achieve intermediate steps like becoming prophets, seers, and revelators? The restored gospel is revolutionary. It scandalizes the world. It tells us that we are the same species as God and that we can become like him. The funny/sad thing is that we want to keep that in the mythical distance. But the call to become local and personal prophets, seers, and revelators is no distant goal — it is here and now. The rubber hits the road on that. But I ask the question: If we can’t become a seer over our own stewardships in this life why should we actually believe we can ever become like God in the eternities?

    All it takes to be a prophet, seers, and revelator is to have a clear and consistent dialogic relationship with our loving God. We covenant weekly that if we keep his commandments and always remember him we’ll always have his spirit to be with us. Everything in the gospel pushes us this way but everything in the world tries to convince us we’re not worthy of the rewards promised the Lord’s elect.

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 6, 2005 @ 4:15 pm

12. Geoff,
    I also would that all the people were prophets, seers and revelators I’m not sold on. One verse you haven’t really commented on is verse 13 in the Mosiah material:

    Now Ammon said unto him: I can assuredly tell thee, O king, of a man that can translate the records; for he has wherewith that he can look, and translate all records that are of ancient date; and it is a gift from God. And the things are called interpreters, and no man can look in them except he be commanded, lest he should look for that he ought not and he should perish. And whosoever is commanded to look in them, the same is called cseer.

    Apart from the fact that we shouldn’t all be looking for our own urim and thumims at this point–we don’t want peep-stone problems–I also think that there is something to the seer thing that requires us to be specifically commanded to see things past and things to come in order to become a benefit to one’s fellow beings. That is, I think seership implies a relationship of intermediary–and yes, I still believe that God works through intermediaries and that the need for personal revelation doesn’t nullify the fact that God reveals his will through established channels. I would say that revelator is also one of these functions. It would mean recieving revelation of other sorts–not simply knowledge of things past or things future that are “seen”–that is to be broadly recieved as a benefit to others.
    That said, I would agree that we should all recieve direction in our spheres from God, and that that direction would certainly be able to include things that we souldn’t otherwise know.

    Comment by Steve H — May 6, 2005 @ 6:56 pm

13. “All it takes to be a prophet, seers, and revelator is to have a clear and consistent dialogic relationship with our loving God.”

    Oh, is that all? ;)

    For someone like me, who has almost an inability to pray, do you have any suggestions for where to start?

    It’s good to say that we all should be having this, but the hows are helpful to those of us who struggle.

    I’ll give you a little background, just so that you know where I’m coming from.

    I was born and raised Catholic, but aside from rote prayers, I had never prayed before. In the First Discussion, the missionaries taught me to pray, but I’ve never felt quite comfortable praying. Most of the praying I do is when I’m asked to give a prayer at church.

    I completely recognise the importance of prayer. Without it, it is near impossible to have a meaningful relationship with Heavenly Father. It’s also pretty tough to gain a strong testimony without prayer. But it’s something I’ve struggled with the entire time I’ve been a member, and I’m at a loss for what to do about it.

    Comment by Crystal — May 6, 2005 @ 9:31 pm

14. Man I love it when you comment here Crystal! You always say the best things and ask all the right questions. I’ll write a post tonight based on your how-to question. I can hardly imagine a more important topic to post on. But let me just say that the fact that you heard/felt the spirit strongly enough to allow to make such a major life decision (joining the church) tells me that you are probably well ahead of many members of the church in your dialogic prayer skills.

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 7, 2005 @ 12:09 pm

15. Thanks for the comment Steve. I concede that the term seer can have multiple definitions. In the most narrow sense in our scriptures it would only apply to those in possesion of Urim and Thummin or other seer-stone type of objects. Perhaps the 12 and 1st Presidency have access to such devices today — I just don’t know. Even if something like this is locked away in a vault somewhere those 15 men would not pass the test in that BoM verse you cited though. It says that only those that are commanded to look into them are called seers. But then how do we reconcile that with the fact that Joseph got so good at translation/revelation that he no longer needed the crutch of such devices and could dictate revelation directly from God with no external help? Clearly Joseph did not cease to be a seer when he ceased to utilize a seer stone/urim and thummin. If we rely too heavily on that definition in Mosiah, what are we to do if we discover that not all of the men we have been sustaining as seers have been utilizing the urim and thummin? Obviously that would not change their standing with God so I don’t thik it is useful to try to straightjacket the term seer too much.

    My Random House dictionary defines a seer simply as “a person who foretells future events”. I think we give the word more meaning than that, but I point it out simply to defend my use of the word here. I think we can be seers in a very real sense and that God and those aforementioned 15 men want us to be so.

    On a side note — Nibley suggested that when Laman and Lemuel accused their father of being a visionary man they probably used the hebrew word that is often translated as “seer” (He used ha-piqqea’ though John Tvednes more recently opined that the hebrew word was probably hozeh instead). If being a visionary person like Lehi constitutes being called a seer then it is certainly something we should covet.

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 7, 2005 @ 12:40 pm

16. “But then how do we reconcile that with the fact that Joseph got so good at translation/revelation that he no longer needed the crutch of such devices and could dictate revelation directly from God with no external help? Clearly Joseph did not cease to be a seer when he ceased to utilize a seer stone/urim and thummin. If we rely to (sic) heavily on that definition in Mosiah, what are we to do if we discover that not all of the men we have been sustaining as seers have been utilizing the urim and thummin?”

    LOL. Do you have any idea how funny that is? A man who tells stories by staring at a rock in the bottom of his hat isn’t a seer, he’s a man who stares at rocks at the bottom of his hat.

    Comment by Sam — May 7, 2005 @ 7:42 pm

17. LOL. Do you have any idea how funny that is?

    Umm, yeah… not very funny… But if that sort of thing represents your taste in humor, uhh, well, alrightee then.

    I will say that despite what anyone thinks of the methods of translation, the fruit of that miraculous process (The Book of Mormon) is indeed a marvelous work and a wonder. But no one should take my word about that — God can and does answer prayers after all. (That is the point of this post of course.)

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 7, 2005 @ 8:26 pm

18. I engage in dialogic prayer almost all of the time. I listen, I ask and listen, I speak and listen, I just listen … in silence with my mind silent. In the stillness and silence, God speaks. He speaks peace. He speaks admonition. Sometimes he rebukes. He always speaks love — all ways.

    Comment by Blake — May 8, 2005 @ 11:01 am

19. That doesn’t surprise me Blake. I think it explains why you came up with the expansion theory too. It takes one who understands how dialogic prayer works first hand to recognize that Joseph probably used the same connection to God that we (can) have. I wonder if relying on the ticker-tape explanations for the BoM translation reveals a lack of understanding of this revelatory process.

    BTW — I suspect Joseph’s bandwidth was far greater than the bandwith I currently have in that connection with God… I’m working on that though…

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 8, 2005 @ 12:41 pm

20. One of my very first posts was on PSR’s and our sustaining of them. See here. My definition of Prophets is one who offers prophecies and is willing (whether He/She does or not is another matter) to say “Thus saith the Lord…” My definition of a Seer is somebody who sees something and can (whether he/she does or not) tell us about it. My definition of a Revelator is somebody who does, not can, reveal new things to other people.

    Now, given these definitions I am definitely not a PSR. Not only that, but I don’t think that I’ve ever actually heard anybody say anything which would qualify them for this title. (This is the direction my post went in.) While I definitly think that PSR’s should be more common in the church and that everybody has the potential to be one, I just don’t see it happening. Nobody says, “thus saith the Lord” or “I saw”. Nobody seems to be revealing anything new. While excuses can be given for this, it doesn’t change the way things are, and this can be very discouraging at times.

    Comment by Jeffrey Giliam — May 9, 2005 @ 10:36 am

21. Jeff,

    There are many people in the church that fit the definitions you give here. When I get a clear message from the Lord within my stewardship I can and have effectively said “thus saith the Lord” to those over whom I have responsibility (primarily my own family right now). I have witnessed RS presidents, EQ presidents, Bishops, and Stake Presidents do the same for their flocks as well. I have seen prophecy, seership, and revelation within stewardships over and over and I have been the instrument for all of those in my own stewardships. So I disagree vehemently with the concerns you express here:

    Nobody says, “thus saith the Lord” or “I saw”. Nobody seems to be revealing anything new.

    I believe loads of people are speaking in the name of and on behalf of the Lord within their stewardships. I believe many new things are being revealed.

    Perhaps you are looking for new revelation that applies to the whole world. But why look for general revelation and prophecy when the Lord is pouring forth local revelation and prophecy all the time? I suspect you are looking beyond the mark and missing the powerful local revelation that is happening all around you.

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 9, 2005 @ 11:00 am

22. Now when I say “thus saith the Lord” I don’t mean somebody just saying that they have been inspired. I mean somebody who would be willing to have that particular statement canonized and published (within appropriate limits) so that everybody can judge the statement. I want to see predictions that actually come true on a regular basis. I want somebody to go out on a limb and have the confidence to say something that makes them look absolutely rediculous to a non-believer and then, in time, be remarkably vindicated. I am looking for revelation which is absolutely true as opposed to being mere advice given a specific bunch of folks in some stake. I want somebody to reveal more about the nature of God, more about our relation to Him and others. We don’t hear any new section 76, 110 or 138’s anymore, we should. I don’t consider it looking beyond the mark to want somebody to say, “I know that there is a God because I have met Him.” In fact, since all other arguments for God seem to fail in my opinion, I view it as necessary that people say that. Maybe your ward and stake are different than mine, but I have never heard a leader give a prophecy in the name of the Lord which he isn’t just repeating from somebody else. I’ve never heard anybody say “I saw”. I’ve never read a revelation declaring something new in my life time.

    Comment by Jeffrey Giliam — May 9, 2005 @ 1:09 pm

23. Sometimes I wish I could have a big vision of the history of the world like Moses or Nephi did. But why should I, when I can study and read about theirs (and haven’t thoroughly)? It’s been my experience that God gives us just what we need and nothing more.

    Comment by Susan M — May 9, 2005 @ 3:15 pm

24. Susan,

    I think you are right. This revelation thing is an iterative process. But I think the problem is not that God won’t show us those things but rather that we don’t dedicate enough time and effort to the process to warrant that kind of revelation. I suspect we could get them if we did what was necessary, but we don’t want those sorts of things badly enough to pay the price.

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 9, 2005 @ 4:32 pm

25. Jeffrey,

    Interesting comments. I’ve responded below.

    I don’t mean somebody just saying that they have been inspired. I mean somebody who would be willing to have that particular statement canonized and published (within appropriate limits) so that everybody can judge the statement.

    I think you may be placing a standard on revelation that was never there historically. For instance, my stake president received a revelatory dream that applies only to our stake recently. He has shared it with the whole stake and there are thousands of us. It gives important guidance to us here and now and our stake has proceeded with this vision guiding our actions. How is that different than the vision Lehi had of the Tree of Life? Lehi was just a Father leading a small band of his family and others. His revelations were simply recorded in the family history. Now, thousands of years later we revere them as astonishing communications from God. But how is his revelatory dream really different from one that I might have or my stake president?
    
    I want somebody to go out on a limb and have the confidence to say something that makes them look absolutely rediculous to a non-believer and then, in time, be remarkably vindicated.

    Why? And how could you possibly call this anything but sign seeking? God said to Oliver:

    22 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if you desire a further witness, cast your mind upon the night that you cried unto me in your heart, that you might aknow concerning the truth of these things.
    23 Did I not speak peace to your mind concerning the matter? What greater witness can you have than from God? (D&C 6:22-23)

    I want somebody to reveal more about the nature of God, more about our relation to Him and others.

    Dude, that was the point of this post. The person to get that revealtion for you is you! We are commanded to seek and learn the mysteries of God directly from God ourselves. How will knowing about God help you if you don’t actually know God?

    I don’t consider it looking beyond the mark to want somebody to say, “I know that there is a God because I have met Him.”

    So why aren’t you working on meeting him yourself? How do you know others haven’t met God but consider the experience too sacred to bring up over th pulpit? Our scriptures record lots of events that were not allowed to be revealed until future generations (like the Brother of Jared meeting God). Some truths are not for general consumption after all.

    Comment by Geoff Johnston — May 9, 2005 @ 4:35 pm

26. Geoff,

    Your post was great. I agree wholeheartedly; but I also agree with Jeffrey.

    The main post was hopeful, and caught the glimpse of the divine that I think we all seek. Jeffrey asks the difficult question: Where are the fruits?

    Ironically, the replies to Jeffrey’s questions are the same tides that keep washing us away from the promised coast that Geoff has spotted. There is a question hanging out there that all saints will have to answer about what the PSR’s we have been presented with have actually P-ed, S-een, and R-ed. If we will not be our own PSR, as Geoff suggests we need to be (and I agree), then we will be judged by what we, by default, follow. What will we be judged against? Every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God? or the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture?

    Comment by XON — May 24, 2005 @ 5:42 pm

27. Ironically, the replies to Jeffrey’s questions are the same tides that keep washing us away from the promised coast that Geoff has spotted.

    Now that is some nice writing, XON.

    Comment by Geoff J — May 25, 2005 @ 12:43 am

28. Steve – “Apart from the fact that we shouldn’t all be looking for our own urim and thumims at this point-we don’t want peep-stone problems-…”

    Why shouldn’t we all be looking for our own urim and thumims? I believe that’s exactly what we should be doing. Learn to work with one and then eventually, like Joseph, we’ll be so in tune we won’t need the crutch anymore. Line by line you know. Learn to receive revelation from the stones to grow to the point where you can receive revelation without them. I’m currently studying how to find one, use one, etc. I look forward to this form of communication.

    Comment by Speaking Up — May 25, 2005 @ 8:04 am

29. If you would like to learn more on seer please log on the google site for AIDS SIDS LEVI, It gives vision information. I have found it most common that a seer or seeress is most commom blood type A, second most common is O, and third is A/B. It is most common for that person to have two consecutive dreams as Joseph did in the Old Testament to foretell the future also. Thanks. Linda

    Comment by linda bunk — June 13, 2005 @ 2:08 pm

30. Here is a great and relevant quote from Truman Madsen. (Hat tip to J. Stapley)

    How do you know a prophet is a prophet? Only when you are one. Only when you are actuated by the same Spirit. And that’s the way you prove the prophetic mantle and how it applies to you.

    Said the Prophet Joseph Smith after one of the most revelatory meetings in his life, “There was nothing made known to these men [the Twelve] but what will be made known to all the Saints of the last days, so soon as they are prepared to receive” (Teachings, p. 237). This is the religion of every man. Not “Take my word for my experience,” but “Duplicate it in your own life.” How far do I go with this? All the way.

    Let me then come to a close. I have hiked, with my wife and at night, all the way from the base of what is known as Mt. Sinai to the top. (Incidentally, with a very sore toe. Climbing hurts, and the more you climb, sometimes the more it hurts.) We went up to where the air is thinner and the veil thinner. There isn’t time to describe the feeling, but we were able to recollect that Moses, there, had face-to-face communion with God. He came back down and said to the children of Israel, in the name of the God whose name he knew, “Now, you are invited to go back up with me.”

    And they said, “Thank you. No. That’s for prophets. That’s for people who are a bit fanatical. We will stay here and you go up, Moses.”

    In his absence they built an idol. The power of religious impulses goes in many directions. They built an idol–a thing–and were denied the privileges of Moses (D&C 84:23­25). That is what our generation is now doing again. We are staying down below and then claiming superiority for our judgment in doing so.

    – Devotional address given at Brigham Young University on 20 September 1994.

    Comment by Geoff J — July 6, 2005 @ 4:08 pm

31. Nice pull. I like the last paragraph especially.

    Comment by J. Stapley — July 6, 2005 @ 5:54 pm

32. I asked God a question one time exspecting an answer and was very surprised to recieve an answer.

    Comment by magdalene — May 18, 2006 @ 9:13 pm

33. he has answered me ever since and thats been almost 10 years.

    Comment by magdalene — May 18, 2006 @ 9:18 pm

34. Aug 2004 I got told I was a prophet. What do you mean you got told you were a prophet? Suddenly the world around me started speaking to me… I mean radios, TVs, books… they began to address me personally, relate to questions I was asking directly. I would hae a thought, feel compelled to open a particular book, even one I’d never read, and my thought would be there, waiting for me. I began to know when someone was going to call me, reality began behaving in a less random fashion… everything had meaning. I received incontrovertible evidence of the existence of Our Lord, that we are it, and it is us, we are all one. Anyone who has never experienced this will believe me to be insane, but fortunately I realised that and didn’t tell anyone. I got told, in fact, not to tell anyone, which is why I’m reduced to posting this not anonymously on a Mormon website. I’ve seen the face of God, found my Umim/Thurim if you want to know it, and have dialogues with it. If I ask a straight and direct question, on any topic, I only need open a book, for example a dictionary, and the answer will appear by my left thumb on the page at which I open it, quickly and surely, but seemingly randomly.

    God is all around you. In every moment you are able to act as a revelator to others around you and they are able to act as revelators to you. From such revelators I can tell when the sun is likely to shine, when a participant will fail to turn up for an experiment (I’m a research psychologist), when a talk will go badly, and even when someone is going to die. I have been reassured, I have prayed for help when I thought I was losing my mind (as I feared I was when these things started happening) and had people call me straight away saying ‘I just felt like I really had to ring you!’ Before all that happened I’d never met anyone who had had similar experiences, but suddenly when all these things had happened I met similar people, some who were able to reassure me, others who had failed to trust in what was happening, some who had consulted psychiatrists and been given antipsychotics.

    I can ignore it, adn it stops, but it fascinates me and I crave it, so I will it to continue, and for the most part it does. I’ve seen truly amazing and miraculous things, to the extent that I believe that anything is possible.

    You want ‘the Lord saith’? The first thought I had that was echoed back to me was ‘we are all Christ’… I opened a book ‘The Golden Bough’ and on the page at which I opened it was a description of the beliefs of heretical early Christian sects, i.e. that anyone can become Christ i.e. divine. That helped me a great deal, because it made me feel like the things that were happening to me were possible, or at least other people had believed them possible. As far as I am concerned what I was told, and have been told continuously, is that we are all Christ.

    The question that I have dedicated my life to answering is how human beings become prophets… and the question that has been posted above… is it necessary or desirable that we do. I know that when I was going through my most acute phase of ‘connection’ it seemed absolutely imperative, nothing else was more important than that I helped other people achieve this.

    But perhaps it would be too much for some? It is certainly difficult at times. And right now I often feel confused, and don’t understand, and if anyone else has been through similar things to myself and thinks they could help, I would very much appreciate any guidance, because as it is, I have never met anyone who has had as direct experience as myself.

    As it is I have since realised that simply by being with other people I awake something in them, and I have watched the people close to me change in some cases dramatically. My best friend, in fact, who was diagnosed as bipolar when she was younger, went through a similar experience to myself, and was able to trust the things that were happening to her because I had already gone through them.

    Does anyone know how to experience these things apart from through love? I believe that it was love coupled with a heightened inner sense that awoke these things in me. For me it was necessary to learn to trust my instincts, even if they are counterintuitive or just plain bizarre… just see where they take you.

    Comment by Jess — June 2, 2006 @ 1:22 pm

35. Oops sorry that was a bit lengthy!

    Comment by Jess — June 2, 2006 @ 1:35 pm

36. Oh… and I feel I should say… I wanted to know if angels existed, if what was communicating with me was God, or an angel, or Christ, or what?!! Hahaha. Anyway, so I asked it, I should say that when I ask a question it does have associated with it a particular state of mind – very clear, very aware, and I can tell when it’s been asked properly as well.. sometimes I don’t really beleive that I want to know what I’ve asked, while sometimes my question is something that I know for sure I’m really desperate to know. In this case I was lying in bed, and I asked the question out loud – ‘What are you? Are you an angel? And instantly I knew I needed to go to my bookshelf and the question would be answered. So I went and knew which book to choose (Penguin Dictionary of Beliefs and Religions), and I opened it, and by my left thumb was written ‘Elohim, name for the Hebrew God most used in the Old Testament’. So that for me is proof that what I ‘talk’ to at least identifies itself as God. I then asked who I was (which I felt I already knew the answer to in any case), but the entry was ‘Siberian sorceress’, and then when I looked again as I thought it was a bit bizarre, the entry was ‘Sarah, Abraham’s wife’. So basically a prophetess, which was exactly the answer I thought I’d get.

    Comment by Jess — June 2, 2006 @ 1:53 pm

37. Bibliomancy and divination – possible in principle, but generally rather dangerous – to be used as a last resort, when all else fails. I think God would rather have us reason our way to solutions, and then get confirmation, not just pump us with answers.

    Comment by Mark Butler — June 2, 2006 @ 3:44 pm

38. I disagree with you, sir. I did not finish your article, but I definitely disagree with some of your points in the first paragraph. We are not wicked if we do not “hear back” from the Lord. God will answer prayers that are put forth to Him in the way that He has prescribed. These answers do not always come right away. But they will come, if offered up properly. The main purpose of the Book of Mormon is NOT to teach us dialogical prayer. It is another witness of Jesus Christ. That is it’s main purpose. I apologize if these points, which I believe to be false, were corrected in the rest of your article. That does not strike well with me, though..

    Comment by Jason — December 29, 2007 @ 6:17 pm

39. I did not finish your article

    Hehe. You didn’t even read the whole post before spouting off? Wow. Dude, it’s not that long… why don’t you let us know when you finish reading the “article”. (And I recommend reading the comments too.)

    Comment by Geoff J — December 29, 2007 @ 9:25 pm