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	<title>Comments on: Some pro progression between kingdoms quotes</title>
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	<description>Mormon Musings by yer ol' pals</description>
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		<title>By: drjackcv</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-425294</link>
		<dc:creator>drjackcv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 18:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wonderful thread. Great thinking.

Here&#039;s my thought: it comes down to a question of evolution vs. development. 
Analogy: Will a spider monkey ever evolve into a gorilla? Common ancestor, but now different lines of development.

I think we are proving our essential, eternal core both to ourselves and to the universe. Not to God, for he knows our hearts, our potential, and our destiny from beginning to end.

I suspect that God with perfect omniscience selected Jehovah as his Firstborn in the spirit,  Lucifer as a star of the morning,  and the absolutely perfect number of Celestial intelligences, Terrestrial intelligences, Telestial intelligences and Lost intelligences to create a system of maximum happiness for each one after this probationary state.

As within the confines of two lines emanating from a point, eternal progression is possible within the limitations of a Telestial kingdom, and even in outer darkness. I don&#039;t think the monkeys need or will ever evolve into gorillas, worlds without end. 

If I&#039;m wrong (it has happened several times before), then I&#039;ll be glad and welcome the prodigals in with a party. But, for the present, looking at every soul&#039;s free exercise of their agency as a success is helping me to be more patient and loving at home, at Church and even with politicians.

Our job, as a people, is to prepare the world for the 2nd Coming and millennial reign of the Savior. When a son of perdition receives my testimony, receives the witness of the Spirit, hates it and kills me -- that&#039;s a success! We are both prepared for the 2nd coming, and God&#039;s honor/power are elevated. (D&amp;C 29:36)

More commonly, when a member of our ward fails to do his HTing, or preaches careless false doctrine to children, I&#039;m anxious but not angry any more.

My goal is to be holy, (whole, healthy, balanced), for God is holy. My prayer is for the pure love of Christ that never fails. This quest seems to have brought me to seeing Telestial and Perditious behaviours as successes. Temporarily painful, but eternally joyous for all. (Moses 7:39 [24-44])</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wonderful thread. Great thinking.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s my thought: it comes down to a question of evolution vs. development.<br />
Analogy: Will a spider monkey ever evolve into a gorilla? Common ancestor, but now different lines of development.</p>
<p>I think we are proving our essential, eternal core both to ourselves and to the universe. Not to God, for he knows our hearts, our potential, and our destiny from beginning to end.</p>
<p>I suspect that God with perfect omniscience selected Jehovah as his Firstborn in the spirit,  Lucifer as a star of the morning,  and the absolutely perfect number of Celestial intelligences, Terrestrial intelligences, Telestial intelligences and Lost intelligences to create a system of maximum happiness for each one after this probationary state.</p>
<p>As within the confines of two lines emanating from a point, eternal progression is possible within the limitations of a Telestial kingdom, and even in outer darkness. I don&#8217;t think the monkeys need or will ever evolve into gorillas, worlds without end. </p>
<p>If I&#8217;m wrong (it has happened several times before), then I&#8217;ll be glad and welcome the prodigals in with a party. But, for the present, looking at every soul&#8217;s free exercise of their agency as a success is helping me to be more patient and loving at home, at Church and even with politicians.</p>
<p>Our job, as a people, is to prepare the world for the 2nd Coming and millennial reign of the Savior. When a son of perdition receives my testimony, receives the witness of the Spirit, hates it and kills me &#8212; that&#8217;s a success! We are both prepared for the 2nd coming, and God&#8217;s honor/power are elevated. (D&amp;C 29:36)</p>
<p>More commonly, when a member of our ward fails to do his HTing, or preaches careless false doctrine to children, I&#8217;m anxious but not angry any more.</p>
<p>My goal is to be holy, (whole, healthy, balanced), for God is holy. My prayer is for the pure love of Christ that never fails. This quest seems to have brought me to seeing Telestial and Perditious behaviours as successes. Temporarily painful, but eternally joyous for all. (Moses 7:39 [24-44])</p>
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		<title>By: Gary</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424532</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Aug 2011 18:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/#comment-424532</guid>
		<description>Some interesting comments here. I do no see one from Joseph&#039;s King Fallet sermon where he says there are provisions made save everyone of Father&#039;s children that can be saved. 

It would seem there is room for the progression of all that will progress. On the other hand Brigham made it pretty plain the Sons of Perdition would return to the elements they were made from so I don&#039;t know about those. 

I also find it hard to believe Father would not let his children progress if they find it themselves to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some interesting comments here. I do no see one from Joseph&#8217;s King Fallet sermon where he says there are provisions made save everyone of Father&#8217;s children that can be saved. </p>
<p>It would seem there is room for the progression of all that will progress. On the other hand Brigham made it pretty plain the Sons of Perdition would return to the elements they were made from so I don&#8217;t know about those. </p>
<p>I also find it hard to believe Father would not let his children progress if they find it themselves to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424339</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jun 2011 06:31:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s the sort of question that everyone is free to answer in their own ways, but personally I don&#039;t take it as some sort of fundamental limitation on God but as one of the ways that D&amp;C 76 conveys the different degrees of glory between the kingdoms.  Broad strokes.  The Father visited Joseph Smith in the sacred grove, did he not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the sort of question that everyone is free to answer in their own ways, but personally I don&#8217;t take it as some sort of fundamental limitation on God but as one of the ways that D&amp;C 76 conveys the different degrees of glory between the kingdoms.  Broad strokes.  The Father visited Joseph Smith in the sacred grove, did he not?</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424338</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 21:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/#comment-424338</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the refresher Jacob, I&#039;m sure I read it when it was originally posted. One question I have though is if celestial beings can minister/visit those of a lower glory, why can&#039;t the Father? I mean I&#039;m sure He can do what He wants, but we are taught that those in the tel and terr worlds will not enjoy the presence of the Father(celestial), meaning the Father will not visit. But all other celestial beings(Christ, and us per BH Roberts) will be able to visit?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the refresher Jacob, I&#8217;m sure I read it when it was originally posted. One question I have though is if celestial beings can minister/visit those of a lower glory, why can&#8217;t the Father? I mean I&#8217;m sure He can do what He wants, but we are taught that those in the tel and terr worlds will not enjoy the presence of the Father(celestial), meaning the Father will not visit. But all other celestial beings(Christ, and us per BH Roberts) will be able to visit?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424337</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>stephen, if you missed it (or aren&#039;t already familiar with it), take a look at the B.H. Roberts quote in comment #1 and you&#039;ll like it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>stephen, if you missed it (or aren&#8217;t already familiar with it), take a look at the B.H. Roberts quote in comment #1 and you&#8217;ll like it.</p>
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		<title>By: stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424336</link>
		<dc:creator>stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Agreed. For example, terrestial beings will have access to Christ. I find it hard to beleive that when He visits them it is just to say &quot;Hey&quot; and hang out, as if He is on some annual terrestial vacation. It seems more logical that He will be ministering and lifting people up the greater heights. Ditto for the telestial world. What will be the purpose of the ministrations of the HG if not to give more light and knowledge to the inhabitants?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed. For example, terrestial beings will have access to Christ. I find it hard to beleive that when He visits them it is just to say &#8220;Hey&#8221; and hang out, as if He is on some annual terrestial vacation. It seems more logical that He will be ministering and lifting people up the greater heights. Ditto for the telestial world. What will be the purpose of the ministrations of the HG if not to give more light and knowledge to the inhabitants?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424331</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2011 00:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Don, that&#039;s how I feel as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don, that&#8217;s how I feel as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Don</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-424321</link>
		<dc:creator>Don</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:04:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/#comment-424321</guid>
		<description>I have oftend wondered about this subject and found your Blog via a Google search for &quot;LDS&quot; and &quot;universalism&quot;. I had heard the contrary quotes but wondered if those were opinion rather than doctrine. I was very interested to find that there were opinions on both sides.

My thought process has come about this way. D&amp;C 76 (several instances) seems to indicate a seperation between kingdoms. For example, speaking of those in the Telestial Kingdom, we are told that where the Father and the Son are, they cannot come (vs 112). I have a wayward son, 22 years old, returned missionary, who has had his name removed. I cannot fathom that I would ever give up on him - ever. And if I, an imperfect mortal with flaws and limitations, have that level of persistent dedication to a wayward child, would God be any less inclined? Would He be satisfied, knowing that He had spiritual creations who would never again see Him or receive a fulness?

I don&#039;t know the answers to that question, and from what I&#039;m reading, I don&#039;t think any of us do. But my own heart tells me that I would hope for the possibility of eternal progression for all, even those among us who seem to be lost. My personal view is that, at least on some level, it must be so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have oftend wondered about this subject and found your Blog via a Google search for &#8220;LDS&#8221; and &#8220;universalism&#8221;. I had heard the contrary quotes but wondered if those were opinion rather than doctrine. I was very interested to find that there were opinions on both sides.</p>
<p>My thought process has come about this way. D&amp;C 76 (several instances) seems to indicate a seperation between kingdoms. For example, speaking of those in the Telestial Kingdom, we are told that where the Father and the Son are, they cannot come (vs 112). I have a wayward son, 22 years old, returned missionary, who has had his name removed. I cannot fathom that I would ever give up on him &#8211; ever. And if I, an imperfect mortal with flaws and limitations, have that level of persistent dedication to a wayward child, would God be any less inclined? Would He be satisfied, knowing that He had spiritual creations who would never again see Him or receive a fulness?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know the answers to that question, and from what I&#8217;m reading, I don&#8217;t think any of us do. But my own heart tells me that I would hope for the possibility of eternal progression for all, even those among us who seem to be lost. My personal view is that, at least on some level, it must be so.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-423103</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/#comment-423103</guid>
		<description>Just to add to the conversation I believe one need only consider the idea of an &quot;Infinite and Eternal&quot; Atonement.  If the Atonement can only be applied to the bounds of mortality then it is not, by definition, &quot;Eternal&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to add to the conversation I believe one need only consider the idea of an &#8220;Infinite and Eternal&#8221; Atonement.  If the Atonement can only be applied to the bounds of mortality then it is not, by definition, &#8220;Eternal&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Riley</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/comment-page-1/#comment-422347</link>
		<dc:creator>Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:13:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/some-pro-progression-between-kingdoms-quotes/#comment-422347</guid>
		<description>&quot;Failure is never final and sucess is never ending.&quot;

Love it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Failure is never final and sucess is never ending.&#8221;</p>
<p>Love it!</p>
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