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	<title>Comments on: Increasing Member Retention, Part 2 The Evangelical Way</title>
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	<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/</link>
	<description>Mormon Musings by yer ol' pals</description>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421499</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Aug 2010 12:22:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421499</guid>
		<description>In response to Matt W&#039;s question, I am in one of the mid-Atlantic states. After I posted that comment yesterday, I thought a lot about how much I had reached out to people, and the finding was --not much. I guess it&#039;s up to me to be the one reaching out now, instead of expecting everyone else to beat a path to my door. I realized what a baby I sounded like and it woke me up. Thanks for letting me vent and being a vehicle for finding a new perspective. Bless you all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In response to Matt W&#8217;s question, I am in one of the mid-Atlantic states. After I posted that comment yesterday, I thought a lot about how much I had reached out to people, and the finding was &#8211;not much. I guess it&#8217;s up to me to be the one reaching out now, instead of expecting everyone else to beat a path to my door. I realized what a baby I sounded like and it woke me up. Thanks for letting me vent and being a vehicle for finding a new perspective. Bless you all.</p>
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		<title>By: Bro. Jones</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421492</link>
		<dc:creator>Bro. Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 19:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421492</guid>
		<description>#16 As has been pointed out by others, though, the trouble with an LDS &quot;linger longer&quot; is that we&#039;re already in services and classes for 3 hours each Sunday.  Proposing that we stay even longer than that is brutal, donuts or no.  I&#039;m with others who suggest that such a practice would benefit most from cutting services by a few minutes (or an entire block).  

#17 I&#039;m a convert too, and I hear you loud and clear.  To be fair, I had a lot of friends in the ward I originally joined--so even if the church&#039;s &quot;official&quot; welcoming committee didn&#039;t manifest themselves, I had connections with other people in the ward.  By the time I moved to a new ward back East, I realized that I was in a population (single, young, college student in the mission field) that is largely invisible to both members and leaders.  Certainly played a part in my eventual inactivity when offers of transportation* were extended to investigators and recent converts but not the college students.

* The ward was miles away from campus and there was no public transportation option.  We relied on the kindness of others to get us to church, and when the awesome guy who drove us graduated and left the area, the ward dropped the ball and those of us who were left didn&#039;t have the energy to demand that the bishopric work something out.  Someone did and got the whole &quot;Saints in Peru walk 30 miles uphill both ways to church&quot; talk. Ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#16 As has been pointed out by others, though, the trouble with an LDS &#8220;linger longer&#8221; is that we&#8217;re already in services and classes for 3 hours each Sunday.  Proposing that we stay even longer than that is brutal, donuts or no.  I&#8217;m with others who suggest that such a practice would benefit most from cutting services by a few minutes (or an entire block).  </p>
<p>#17 I&#8217;m a convert too, and I hear you loud and clear.  To be fair, I had a lot of friends in the ward I originally joined&#8211;so even if the church&#8217;s &#8220;official&#8221; welcoming committee didn&#8217;t manifest themselves, I had connections with other people in the ward.  By the time I moved to a new ward back East, I realized that I was in a population (single, young, college student in the mission field) that is largely invisible to both members and leaders.  Certainly played a part in my eventual inactivity when offers of transportation* were extended to investigators and recent converts but not the college students.</p>
<p>* The ward was miles away from campus and there was no public transportation option.  We relied on the kindness of others to get us to church, and when the awesome guy who drove us graduated and left the area, the ward dropped the ball and those of us who were left didn&#8217;t have the energy to demand that the bishopric work something out.  Someone did and got the whole &#8220;Saints in Peru walk 30 miles uphill both ways to church&#8221; talk. Ugh.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421481</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421481</guid>
		<description>Jane that&#039;s terrible. I am a convert as well, and that wasn&#039;t really my experience. I am so sorry that has been your experience and admire your ability to persevere. Just out of curiosity, where do you live?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane that&#8217;s terrible. I am a convert as well, and that wasn&#8217;t really my experience. I am so sorry that has been your experience and admire your ability to persevere. Just out of curiosity, where do you live?</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421480</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 12:57:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421480</guid>
		<description>Hi. I am a convert. Seems like any real intentions to retain converts would start with talking to them, but I&#039;ve been a member for 10 years and that has yet to happen. I will tell you that the hardest thing about being a convert is the almost immediate loss of interest anyone takes in you as soon as you get baptized. Prior to that, I would get lots of visits and phone calls. People tried to include me in things. After baptism, pretty much everyone fell away and they were on to the next investigator. At least the visits and the concerned phone calls stopped immediately. I have stayed in the church because I think it is the right place to be. It sure was a hard lesson to accept though, that once converted, you were like day-old bread at the bakery. Just thought I&#039;d let you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi. I am a convert. Seems like any real intentions to retain converts would start with talking to them, but I&#8217;ve been a member for 10 years and that has yet to happen. I will tell you that the hardest thing about being a convert is the almost immediate loss of interest anyone takes in you as soon as you get baptized. Prior to that, I would get lots of visits and phone calls. People tried to include me in things. After baptism, pretty much everyone fell away and they were on to the next investigator. At least the visits and the concerned phone calls stopped immediately. I have stayed in the church because I think it is the right place to be. It sure was a hard lesson to accept though, that once converted, you were like day-old bread at the bakery. Just thought I&#8217;d let you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M (Ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421471</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M (Ethesis)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 19:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421471</guid>
		<description>Our High Priest group in my ward has refreshments at least once a month.  The Ensign had an article years ago about a ward that had &quot;linger longer&quot; events with food following services.

I think they are a great thing, they just have collateral issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our High Priest group in my ward has refreshments at least once a month.  The Ensign had an article years ago about a ward that had &#8220;linger longer&#8221; events with food following services.</p>
<p>I think they are a great thing, they just have collateral issues.</p>
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		<title>By: E</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421470</link>
		<dc:creator>E</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 04:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421470</guid>
		<description>Anecdotally, I serve a delicious snack each week to my Sunbeams, and 100% of them are active in the church.  So I think food works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anecdotally, I serve a delicious snack each week to my Sunbeams, and 100% of them are active in the church.  So I think food works.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421469</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 03:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421469</guid>
		<description>Geoff- I would never have caught that, but you just made my night twice as awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff- I would never have caught that, but you just made my night twice as awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421468</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 01:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421468</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;the inedible impression it made on us&lt;/em&gt;

Hehe.  That is an amusing typo considering the context...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>the inedible impression it made on us</em></p>
<p>Hehe.  That is an amusing typo considering the context&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Katie M.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421467</link>
		<dc:creator>Katie M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 00:13:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421467</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the power of refreshments can be overestimated. While Eric is right that many of our non-Sunday meetings do indeed have refreshments already, this is about member retention, and reaching those who do not go to non-Sunday meetings, and even sporadically to Sunday meetings. Some refreshments before church or during the long block would be welcome.

My husband and I visited a megachurch a few years ago and they had free donuts, coffee, and soda in the lobby. I have to admit that we were tickled pink to get a free donut and can of soda. Even now, a few years later, my husband will say, &quot;We should go to megachurch and get a free donut.&quot; We haven&#039;t actually followed through, but the fact that it remains part of our shtick certainly points to the inedible impression it made on us. There&#039;s something primal about food (even food sans nutritional value)that feels very welcoming. And free stuff makes people happy.

I do think small groups could be a great thing for the church. As I commented in Part 1, I think part of the problem with retention is &quot;the product&quot; and that the product is faulty because it&#039;s being produced by apathetic members. I would vote for axing Sunday school in favor of voluntary attendance of a small group during the week. Part of the problem with integrating at church is that we interact on a very superficial level-people put their best clothes and smiles and tell their best faith-promoting stories and Sunday-school answers. We rarely admit to struggles or doubts. Something I admire about other churches is the openess that often exists between members-they speak frankly about how they&#039;re doing in their &quot;walk with God,&quot; and if they or their family are having problems. They readily divulge these things and pray about them together. I think LDS members feel stifled from doing so as our church setting feels set up for formal, impersonal communication. We know about each other&#039;s problems, but we talk about them in whispered corners. So it&#039;s hard to feel connected and comfortable at church instead of feeling like you&#039;re putting on a front. In small groups, away from the formal church setting, people could feel free to be more intimate and more frank about who they are and what they&#039;re dealing with. And thus feel more connected to the church. 

The problem is, of course, as others have mentioned, that the church would worry about these small groups breaking off or getting weird. But this risk must be balanced with another real risk-the risk that we&#039;ll continue to have very poor member retention because people don&#039;t feel connected and spiritually fed. Right now the church is more comfortable with keeping more institutional control and is opting to take that risk over risking giving members more freedom. But either risk has their own set of consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think the power of refreshments can be overestimated. While Eric is right that many of our non-Sunday meetings do indeed have refreshments already, this is about member retention, and reaching those who do not go to non-Sunday meetings, and even sporadically to Sunday meetings. Some refreshments before church or during the long block would be welcome.</p>
<p>My husband and I visited a megachurch a few years ago and they had free donuts, coffee, and soda in the lobby. I have to admit that we were tickled pink to get a free donut and can of soda. Even now, a few years later, my husband will say, &#8220;We should go to megachurch and get a free donut.&#8221; We haven&#8217;t actually followed through, but the fact that it remains part of our shtick certainly points to the inedible impression it made on us. There&#8217;s something primal about food (even food sans nutritional value)that feels very welcoming. And free stuff makes people happy.</p>
<p>I do think small groups could be a great thing for the church. As I commented in Part 1, I think part of the problem with retention is &#8220;the product&#8221; and that the product is faulty because it&#8217;s being produced by apathetic members. I would vote for axing Sunday school in favor of voluntary attendance of a small group during the week. Part of the problem with integrating at church is that we interact on a very superficial level-people put their best clothes and smiles and tell their best faith-promoting stories and Sunday-school answers. We rarely admit to struggles or doubts. Something I admire about other churches is the openess that often exists between members-they speak frankly about how they&#8217;re doing in their &#8220;walk with God,&#8221; and if they or their family are having problems. They readily divulge these things and pray about them together. I think LDS members feel stifled from doing so as our church setting feels set up for formal, impersonal communication. We know about each other&#8217;s problems, but we talk about them in whispered corners. So it&#8217;s hard to feel connected and comfortable at church instead of feeling like you&#8217;re putting on a front. In small groups, away from the formal church setting, people could feel free to be more intimate and more frank about who they are and what they&#8217;re dealing with. And thus feel more connected to the church. </p>
<p>The problem is, of course, as others have mentioned, that the church would worry about these small groups breaking off or getting weird. But this risk must be balanced with another real risk-the risk that we&#8217;ll continue to have very poor member retention because people don&#8217;t feel connected and spiritually fed. Right now the church is more comfortable with keeping more institutional control and is opting to take that risk over risking giving members more freedom. But either risk has their own set of consequences.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2010/07/increasing-member-retention-2-the-evangelical-way/2264/comment-page-1/#comment-421466</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jul 2010 06:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=2264#comment-421466</guid>
		<description>I am afraid I have little experience with wards off the Wasatch Front, but from what little I have it would seem that U.S. wards in general aren&#039;t all that different from the variety we have here. Were I to guess the Utah mean might be half that, because there are certainly plenty of lower participation and/or less well off wards here too.  Strike &quot;typical&quot; and replace with &quot;not uncommon&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am afraid I have little experience with wards off the Wasatch Front, but from what little I have it would seem that U.S. wards in general aren&#8217;t all that different from the variety we have here. Were I to guess the Utah mean might be half that, because there are certainly plenty of lower participation and/or less well off wards here too.  Strike &#8220;typical&#8221; and replace with &#8220;not uncommon&#8221;.</p>
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