rather expedient for exalted persons with bodies to influence evolution and organization of raw intelligence and matter on this planet so that we and they have similar biological forms, e.g. two eyes and ten fingers.

Ahh, but does God have two eyes and ten fingers?

That is a whole different question. We used to refer to it as the “Is ‘x’ really human?” (given that ‘x’ differed from the normal matrix somewhat). The answer is yes. So, how far could you get from that matrix and still be human. IQ of 80? IQ of 240. Two extra fingers?

You can see the entire gradualism.

Unfortunately, much of what is written about entropy is based on ideas that are about 120 years out of date. To give a simple example: Drop down to the level of a single atom. Can you use a thermometer of any kind to measure the temperature of this atom? Does an atom have a temperature?

The answer is no – atoms do not have a temperature, the whole idea of temperature is a macroscopic generalization about information (equi-distributed statistical fuzz) we don’t have about a very large number of atoms.

Entropy is the same way, except worse. Atoms don’t have entropy. Entropy is an energy weighted measure of what we don’t know about state of the atoms. What we “don’t know” is a completely subjective concept. Things that are completely subjective aren’t real.

Any thermodynamic setup where entropy appears to be real is due to missing information. That is what entropy is – nothing more than energy weighted ignorance. That means that any world where entropy appears to be real is just an approximation to a world of perfect information, a world where entropy doesn’t exist at all.

The second “law” of thermodynamics is nothing other than an expression of the principle that if an external non-interfering observer starts out with ignorance about the exact state of the system, the amount of uncertainty will spread, until he knows essentially nothing about everything, because it is all statistical fuzz.

Guys, start a new thread!

Depending on various factors such as the relationship of evolution on our planet to other places where evolution occurred, evolution on our planet seems to exhibit external (i.e. divine) influence in addition to the internal and local influence of intelligence.

The reason why this seems to be the case is that seems rather expedient for exalted persons with bodies to influence evolution and organization of raw intelligence and matter on this planet so that we and they have similar biological forms, e.g. two eyes and ten fingers.

So as I said, the difference between the creative activity of God and the creative or quasi-creative activity of any substantive intelligence is fundamentally a matter of scale.

(1) The existence of any order in the universe that cannot be explained with reference to the deterministic component of the fundamental laws of nature is exclusively explained by the action of intelligence

(2) The action of intelligence is defined as any causal events which include causal factors which are neither deterministic, nor random, but which are locally originated with or by an entity with some degree of substantive intelligence.

For example, the spherical symmetry of a barren planet can generally be explained exclusively with reference to the spherical symmetry of Newton’s law of gravitation, which appears to be a completely self-actuating fundamental law of nature.

Likewise, the existence, orbitals, and properties of all the natural elements, as well as any compound statistically likely to exist under some relatively arbitrary condition or another. Water, for example.

What almost certainly cannot be explained with hard materialism (i.e. no intelligence) is the existence, structure, and survival instinct of virtually all living things, from the simplest single cell on up.

There is no metaphysical bar to external intervention or “intelligent design” of biological organisms, however, barring the eternal, undesigned existence of “creatures” with bodies, this is hardly a requirement, and at some point in the distant past probably didn’t occur at all.

The gradualist, organizational influence of raw intelligence is adequate to explain the bootstrapping of biology in whatever form it “first” took. Hard materialist (intelligence free) abiogenesis is essentially impossible. Biogenesis cannot be explained without something to ground a survival instinct.