<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Chapter 7 &#8211; Enduring to the End</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/</link>
	<description>Mormon Musings by yer ol' pals</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:02:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent (MC)</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-351272</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent (MC)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-351272</guid>
		<description>Blake, I think your suggestion is fine. In &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-6-principles-and-ordinances/1102/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;chapter 6&lt;/a&gt; I talk about repentance and baptism in a slightly different way, and I don&#039;t ever use the word justification, but I will go back and revise that chapter slightly to give more emphasis to the continuation of the process that leads to deification. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blake, I think your suggestion is fine. In <a href="http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-6-principles-and-ordinances/1102/" rel="nofollow">chapter 6</a> I talk about repentance and baptism in a slightly different way, and I don&#8217;t ever use the word justification, but I will go back and revise that chapter slightly to give more emphasis to the continuation of the process that leads to deification. Thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blake</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-351264</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:52:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-351264</guid>
		<description>Kent: May I suggest that sanctification be put into relationship with justification as it is in D&amp;C 20:29-23? It seems to me that discussing justification as the moment that a new life -- the life and light of Christ -- is born is us or begins to live in us, is essential to understanding growth in this life and light, or sanctification. Justification is the moment that we are accepted into right relationship with God through Christ as a matter of grace. In accepting this life, we will naturally desire to do all that we can to conform our lives to Christ. We do that by repenting -- which means to remove from our lives anything that gets in the way of having and growing in further relationship with Christ and being like him. We will desire to be baptized in his death and resurrection in covenant to stand as his witnesses because he has asked us to do so.

Thus, justification naturally entails the process of sanctification. The further growth in the life and light of Christ through further repentance and the ordinances of exaltation are the natural fruit of justification. The process of growth in relationship with God through grace is the natural fruit of our faith in and love for Christ. This process is sanctification.

The best scripture, in my view, about sanctification is Moroni 10 that ties together the process of growth and the goal of perfection in Christ -- what I call Christification or deification:

 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.
  33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

I love this scripture because it places the process of sanctification in proper relation to grace and that sanctification consists in denying all ungodliness -- or everything about us that is inimical to being godly or deified.

Any way, just a suggestion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent: May I suggest that sanctification be put into relationship with justification as it is in D&amp;C 20:29-23? It seems to me that discussing justification as the moment that a new life &#8212; the life and light of Christ &#8212; is born is us or begins to live in us, is essential to understanding growth in this life and light, or sanctification. Justification is the moment that we are accepted into right relationship with God through Christ as a matter of grace. In accepting this life, we will naturally desire to do all that we can to conform our lives to Christ. We do that by repenting &#8212; which means to remove from our lives anything that gets in the way of having and growing in further relationship with Christ and being like him. We will desire to be baptized in his death and resurrection in covenant to stand as his witnesses because he has asked us to do so.</p>
<p>Thus, justification naturally entails the process of sanctification. The further growth in the life and light of Christ through further repentance and the ordinances of exaltation are the natural fruit of justification. The process of growth in relationship with God through grace is the natural fruit of our faith in and love for Christ. This process is sanctification.</p>
<p>The best scripture, in my view, about sanctification is Moroni 10 that ties together the process of growth and the goal of perfection in Christ &#8212; what I call Christification or deification:</p>
<p> 32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.<br />
  33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.</p>
<p>I love this scripture because it places the process of sanctification in proper relation to grace and that sanctification consists in denying all ungodliness &#8212; or everything about us that is inimical to being godly or deified.</p>
<p>Any way, just a suggestion.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350869</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 20:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350869</guid>
		<description>If it said, &quot;it is fitting that they are called disciples&quot; or something like that, I would be with you.  I like the fundamental point Kent is making.  When is says &quot;&lt;em&gt;which is why&lt;/em&gt; those who have the habits of Christ are called His disciples&quot; I think that is just factually incorrect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If it said, &#8220;it is fitting that they are called disciples&#8221; or something like that, I would be with you.  I like the fundamental point Kent is making.  When is says &#8220;<em>which is why</em> those who have the habits of Christ are called His disciples&#8221; I think that is just factually incorrect.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350801</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 16:02:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350801</guid>
		<description>Jacob,

I thought that discipline sentence of Kent&#039;s was one of the best parts of the chapter and I don&#039;t think it uses sleight of hand at all.  Honestly I don&#039;t see a substantive difference between your &quot;students of Christ&quot; and &quot;exercising sustained self-control&quot; because I don&#039;t think the two could possibly be separated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob,</p>
<p>I thought that discipline sentence of Kent&#8217;s was one of the best parts of the chapter and I don&#8217;t think it uses sleight of hand at all.  Honestly I don&#8217;t see a substantive difference between your &#8220;students of Christ&#8221; and &#8220;exercising sustained self-control&#8221; because I don&#8217;t think the two could possibly be separated.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent (MC)</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350789</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent (MC)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:59:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350789</guid>
		<description>Matt, I really thought I was being original. Funny!

Thomas, excellent suggestion. I&#039;d like to ask others&#039; opinions on the matter, does the Spirit work differently with everyone or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I really thought I was being original. Funny!</p>
<p>Thomas, excellent suggestion. I&#8217;d like to ask others&#8217; opinions on the matter, does the Spirit work differently with everyone or not?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350759</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 12:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350759</guid>
		<description>Once I got to &quot;Ninjas for Jesus&quot; I forgot everything else. Had to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ninjas4jesus.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;google&lt;/a&gt; it.

It&#039;s true, there is nothing new under the sun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once I got to &#8220;Ninjas for Jesus&#8221; I forgot everything else. Had to <a href="http://www.ninjas4jesus.com/" rel="nofollow">google</a> it.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true, there is nothing new under the sun.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thomas Parkin</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350651</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas Parkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 03:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350651</guid>
		<description>I love it - except for some discomfort with the Spirit works differently for everyone bit. It seems unnecessary, to me, and lends it self possibly to interpreting subjective responses as the Spirit. Also, while the learning how the Spirit works may well be a difficult process, I&#039;m not certain that comparing differences in personal reactions is going to help that be easier. I&#039;d personally emphasize fruits of the Spirit that are common in learning to recognize it: knowledge, wisdom, comfort, an increased desire to do good, love, etc., as you&#039;ve outlined elsewhere. 

That&#039;s my criticism of a fine piece. I don&#039;t think it is weaker if you drop that sentence, or amend it to something like &#039;Learning to recognize the Spirit can be be difficult, but is easier when we remember that the Spirit always leads us to Christ and enlarges His words in each of us in according to our individual needs and personality.&#039; ~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love it &#8211; except for some discomfort with the Spirit works differently for everyone bit. It seems unnecessary, to me, and lends it self possibly to interpreting subjective responses as the Spirit. Also, while the learning how the Spirit works may well be a difficult process, I&#8217;m not certain that comparing differences in personal reactions is going to help that be easier. I&#8217;d personally emphasize fruits of the Spirit that are common in learning to recognize it: knowledge, wisdom, comfort, an increased desire to do good, love, etc., as you&#8217;ve outlined elsewhere. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s my criticism of a fine piece. I don&#8217;t think it is weaker if you drop that sentence, or amend it to something like &#8216;Learning to recognize the Spirit can be be difficult, but is easier when we remember that the Spirit always leads us to Christ and enlarges His words in each of us in according to our individual needs and personality.&#8217; ~</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350582</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 22:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350582</guid>
		<description>Kent,

Actually I don&#039;t think I am going against that wikipedia entry.  It says the root goes back to &quot;instruction,&quot; or as I said, the disciples were called disciples because they were students of Christ.  By contrast, it seems like you are using the word discipline to refer to mean something about exercising sustained self-control.  I think that sense of the word is more recent which is the linguistic sleight of hand I am referring to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent,</p>
<p>Actually I don&#8217;t think I am going against that wikipedia entry.  It says the root goes back to &#8220;instruction,&#8221; or as I said, the disciples were called disciples because they were students of Christ.  By contrast, it seems like you are using the word discipline to refer to mean something about exercising sustained self-control.  I think that sense of the word is more recent which is the linguistic sleight of hand I am referring to.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: brady</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350555</link>
		<dc:creator>brady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350555</guid>
		<description>Kent- Yep, I agree. I&#039;m definitely with you there.  I wasn&#039;t advocating a change, just saying thanks (in a strange way) for helping me think about something differently than I have for a while.

And I think the way it&#039;s written here is best, especially for Jesus-ninja kids :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent- Yep, I agree. I&#8217;m definitely with you there.  I wasn&#8217;t advocating a change, just saying thanks (in a strange way) for helping me think about something differently than I have for a while.</p>
<p>And I think the way it&#8217;s written here is best, especially for Jesus-ninja kids :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent (MC)</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2009/06/chapter-7-enduring-to-the-end/1123/comment-page-1/#comment-350553</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent (MC)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/?p=1123#comment-350553</guid>
		<description>Brady,

We don&#039;t know that the Spirit works differently with everyone, but we either take others&#039; witnesses for it or we don&#039;t. The problem with a &quot;formula&quot; approach to recognizing the Spirit is that when a child tries to make the recipe and doesn&#039;t have a &quot;reaction&quot;, you are kind of out of luck. We could always fall back on, &quot;Well, your heart might not have been right, or you need to exercise more faith.&quot; For practical purposes we must act as if the Spirit does work differently with everyone, since we can&#039;t really tell whether someone&#039;s heart is right or not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brady,</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t know that the Spirit works differently with everyone, but we either take others&#8217; witnesses for it or we don&#8217;t. The problem with a &#8220;formula&#8221; approach to recognizing the Spirit is that when a child tries to make the recipe and doesn&#8217;t have a &#8220;reaction&#8221;, you are kind of out of luck. We could always fall back on, &#8220;Well, your heart might not have been right, or you need to exercise more faith.&#8221; For practical purposes we must act as if the Spirit does work differently with everyone, since we can&#8217;t really tell whether someone&#8217;s heart is right or not.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced (Requested URI is rejected)
Database Caching 1/13 queries in 0.012 seconds using disk: basic
Object Caching 316/317 objects using disk: basic

Served from: www.newcoolthang.com @ 2012-02-10 13:59:57 -->
