Comments on: Some Meandering Theological Musings

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:27:08 +0000

I agree with your conclusions about each world having a savior. We discussed that in this post.

By: Samuel Wattles

Samuel Wattles — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 05:23:13 +0000

I Thank you, Geoff. I will do so, but I would think that all expressions were opinions. I can’t imagine someone espousing a point of view that was not his peronal opinion. I’ve never been awed by someone who simply quotes such and such, unless he’s quoting scriptures. I repect the man who has thought things over and come to his own conclusions under the inspiration of the Spirit. Take the doctrine sometimes published that Jesus is the Savior of ALL God’s worlds. Such a doctrine cannot be true without destroying much other doctrine. Let me site (by memory) a few doctrines that clash with the doctrine that there is but one Savior: A world cannot pass away without work for its dead being completed. Jesus didn’t establish ordiance work for the dead until after he entered the spirit world and bridged the gap between the righteous and unrighteous. Worlds without number were created BEFORE Jesus even entered into OUR world. Jesus was the FIRST to rise from the dead. Other worlds have passed on to their glory before Jesus atoned for sin.
On what basis did inhabitants of other worlds rise from the dead. Their worlds passed away BEFORE Jesus came into OUR world and paid the debt for sin. The spirits of these folks could not wait in the spitit world for Jesus to establish work for the dead. If they did, it would be too late to save their dead, because there worlds had already passed away and work for the dead has to be done by mortals!
For quotes I would recommend Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith. I speak these quotes from memory.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:49:15 +0000

Thanks for the explanation Samuel. You are welcome here. As you might be aware, on the internet it is not uncommon for new people to show up and intentionally try to cause trouble or be rude. I was afraid that was your intent but based on your last few comments I am less inclined to be worried about that. I suspect that if you will simply caveat opinions as opinions (that is what I always do) we won’t have any troubles.

By: Samuel Wattles

Samuel Wattles — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:39:40 +0000

Look, I don’t mean to offend you, Geoff, but I’m serious; because we read a comment by some LDS author, or authority, that doesn’t make it any more fact than my own opinion. How about us starting over? I know you feel that progression between kingdoms of glory must be. Would I be proving anything if I looked up a quote or two to the contrary. I don’t think so, but there’s no need to ban me. I will go willingly. I have spent several hours reading through all your data and haven’t focused entirely on this one subject. For that I appologize. Which comment specifically would you like me to focus oon? By the way, I’m impressed with your typing speed. I’m not really a typist. Never have been, and at age 80 next March doesn’t help. Chuckling at myself.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:29:54 +0000

Look, Sramuel — if you want to engage the actual texts in question as well as the 80 comments that have already been written here you are welcome. If you intend to just spout your personal opinions as if they were facts I’ll just save us all the trouble and assume you are just a drive-by troll and ban you.

By: Samuel Wattles

Samuel Wattles — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 04:26:06 +0000

Sorry, Greoff, but Joseph’s actual words don’t say what you say they do either.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:13:35 +0000

When Joseph Smith said that spirits had no beginning, that they were eternal, he had reference to birth into THIS world.

Nice theory. Too bad the actual words of Joseph Smith don’t really support it.

By: Matt W.

Matt W. — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:14:04 +0000

Samuel, I see no evidence for reference to this world only. The primary texts for the idea of eternal spirits are Abraham 3, the Sermon in the Grove, and the King Follet Sermon. This idea has also been in the teachings of B.H. Roberts, James E. Talmage, John Widtsoe, Richard G. Scott, and Truman Madsen, to name a few.

By: Samuel Wattles

Samuel Wattles — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:00:10 +0000

You’re making a mountain out of a mole hill. When Joseph Smith said that spirits had no beginning, that they were eternal, he had reference to birth into THIS world. In other words, spirits were not created at birth into THIS world: they existed in pre-existence where they did have a beginning!

By: Hal

Hal — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 13:52:11 +0000

Darin,
I think as long as there is college football and In-n-Out, beginningless and eternal existence wonâ€™t be boring.
Which implies that California is truly Zion since that is where USC and IN-N-OUT can be found.