In a fairly famous miscommunication between a BYU professor, THe BYU professor (named Eugene England) hypothesized that God would have perfect knowledge in some ways, like how to save us, and be progressing in others. Jahn A. Widtsoe (an apostle in the early 1900s) agrees with this in his book a rational theology, and so does Brigham YOung, which we have record of from a fairly public debate with Orson Pratt. The part that makes this a miscommunication is that when Elder McConkie, an apostle, responded, he said essentially that God could only progress in certain ways and had to have perfect knowledge in other areas, essentially agreeing with England. The Disagreement seems to be in what ways God is currently progressing, rather than whether he is progressing.

Parte ni Kirby Heyborne, ambot lang. Bahala na, kay actor lang siya ug dili siya og apostole. Kahibalo ko nga lisod ang trabajo sa movie star ug role model siya, pero wa’ ko’y labut sa iyang kinabuhi.

Anyway, what are your thought about this too?

http://jbsolis.blogspot.com/2008/06/kirby-heyborne-standing-for-something.html

Is it never ending progression, or is it Progression like God? (I guess this question needs some decompression. I was thinking of the England vs. McConkie discussion, which requires a certain kind of progression. My opinion is that there are certain things we can progress forever in, and others we can not, because they are what I would call binary functions, and not leveled. An example is that I can not perpetually improve at knowing the letters of the English Alphabet. At some point, I either know them or I don’t. However, Mastery of the letters does not mean that I know every combination of the letters, as that is infinite.)
Is matter never beginning and never ending or is it God’s matter? (This one also could go a lot of ways. To be concise, I think there is an infinite quantity of matter filling an infinite amount of space. This matter has always and will always exist. I would venture to say that each particle of matter is somehow different. This matter has synergy with other components of itself which cause an infinite variety of results)
Is there a distinction between these two or isn’t there? (There is a distinction between something being never ending and something being Godlike)
Is there sometimes a distinction and sometimes no distinction? (Only sometimes)
Were we spirits in the likeness and image of our physical selves? (I think we are currently spirits in the likeness and image of our physical selves. The best I can say is that yes, I believe we were, to a certain extent, in the likeness of our physical selves. I wouldn’t say to what extent that is.)
Were we always such or did we progress to that point from something else? (I believe there was progress in our premortal state, just as there is now. I think, in fact, there was an immense amount of progress followed by a terrible stagnation which resulted in our being bound and unable to progress without God the Father’s help.)
If we go back far enough, do we get to a point where we really didn’t exist, because the sub components that make us ourselves were not fully together, or are there components of us that are unique and constant, making us who we are? (This is the old Young or Smith thing. All I can say is who I am right now didn’t exist yesterday, because I am more than eternal matter. I am also an aggregate of my experience. More on this below)
Of course, even if there are such components (say some form of eternal concept of gender), are these things relevant to the self aware beings we are now, or are they more like building block components from which we were built and formed? (This is one I have no definite answer on. There is too much complexity to drill down to a specific example like gender. What about my eternal self makes me able to pee standing up?)
In other words, what of us is the ultimate true eternal “us”, and what is learned or acquired through the process? (I think a lot of what we are is a compound of our experiences and our perception and understanding of those experiences. Therefore, one might say we are determined by our situation and our cognitive abilities to assimilate the information our situation presents us. However, There is some fundamental component of us (LFW) which allows us to choose what perceptions and what terms we will accept in any given situation)
Is all we are ultimately in our true ultimate eternal “us” merely a speck of libertarian free will riding on the back of a quark? (In a sense, I guess I think of this as a sort of apologia between Young and Smith, in that we are eternal, but also made of “spirit atoms”. It is relatively possible to explain, because language fails. If we go backwards and retrogress our selves, as I suggest, we get to a point where we were something which had existed for an infinite amount of time, but must be in its most primitive state. Question after Question comes forward. If we are a dormant being for an infinite amount of time, can we be more than a dormant being now? It’s hard to wrap one’s head around being a dormant almost nothing forever, and then suddenly not, as it requires an end to forever. I like the language to describe this sub-segment of forever. Anyone know the right word?)
Secondly, what, if anything, did our pre-mortal state have to do with our current condition? (I guess I go for the idea that God gave us this opportunity of life on earth so that our pre-mortal life would have less to do with our current condition, rather than to determine it. Thus the veil.)
But what about our spirit makes us a human, and not a dog or a rock or a blade of grass? (Someone attributed to Cleon Skousen an idea that our pre-mortal progression and obedience to the laws of cause and effect brought us to what state we would exist in. The Question then becomes can a tree progress in this life or after this life to reach a greater level of progression or self-awareness? (This assumes the more self aware we are, the better.))
Why were we born to a well to do family in North America, and not to a poor woman in a 3rd world country? (I personally believe that for myself only, I chose my parents. It may be an irrational belief, but it is what I irrationally believe based on a religious experience I had in the MTC. Outside of that, I dunno.)
Why were we born in a time of prosperity and not a time of great difficulty? (See above?)
Why in our lives did we have the opportunity to accept the Gospel? (This one is pretty amazing to me. I think that less than .001% have a real opportunity to accept the “fullness of the Gospel” in life. Maybe there is meaning to this, and maybe there isn’t. Sometimes I think God’s plan only needs representation of the truth, and not absolute conversion of all to it, while representing the eventual absolute conversion through temple work. Other times, I think that’s crazy..)
Do we somehow have more agency in this life than we did before we was born? (I’d say yes, because I am free of the deterministic forces that I acquired pre-mortally, and am thus free of them.)
In what way do we become like him? (I can only say we find more of the attributes he has within ourselves)
What is he like? (Ineffable? Loving and kind. Good. Wise.)
How does loving one another as we were loved by Christ lead us to access to omnipotence or omniscience? (Love is the greatest form of power in social relationships. It is called referent power. I believe in the idea of power relationships.)
Does everything that has a beginning really have an ending? (Not in my opinion. I don’t believe so. If two “spirit quarks” which have no beginning and thus make a beginning of the synergy between the two of them, there is no reason to believe that synergy will end.)
What is Heaven? (A state of being, more than anything else. A state of connection with those around us, including our Father in Heaven…)

Yes. I do not think there is a difference.

Is matter never beginning and never ending or is it God’s matter? Is there a distinction between these two or isn’t there? Is there sometimes a distinction and sometimes no distinction?

I vote for no distinction.

Where we spirits in the likeness and image of our physical selves?

Yes.

Were we always such or did we progress to that point from something else?

Progress (I like BH Roberts Immortality of Man)

did we cause that progression our selves?

God offers the opportunity, which we can accept by choice.

Is all we are ultimately in our true ultimate eternal “us” merely a speck of libertarian free will riding on the back of a quark?

Might be something like that.

Secondly, what, if anything, did our pre-mortal state have to do with our current condition?

I think it has a lot to do with it. Probably more than most people.

But what about our spirit makes us a human, and not a dog or a rock or a blade of grass?

The fact that we are literal children of God. (Big surprise there).

Why in our lives did we have the opportunity to accept the Gospel?

I think this is very commplicated. I feel Abraham 3 and Alma 13 give us a glimpse, but we should not oversimplify this.

And….you ask to many questions that run on. So these are my quick opinions.

b. evans: Ironically, we’ve even been asked to do more than we’re asked to do, so in order to just do what is asked, we have to do more…

kwk: Interesting point about questions. I think when my daughter asked where babies came from when she was 3, we just said “their mommies tummy”

I did however tell her on the day she was born that there was no santa claus, that way she can never accuse me of not having told her…

Jacob J:
One thing I am somewhat surprised by is that no one has ventured an answer to any of my questions. I was inspired in this post by going back and re-reading your atonement theory questions. Anyway, great scripture.