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	<title>Comments on: God and the Future</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/</link>
	<description>Mormon Musings by yer ol' pals</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:02:11 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-360960</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 05:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-360960</guid>
		<description>Good link Matt.  I loved Dan Areily&#039;s book &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_irrational&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Predictably Irrational&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good link Matt.  I loved Dan Areily&#8217;s book <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictably_irrational" rel="nofollow">Predictably Irrational</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-360949</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 04:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-360949</guid>
		<description>Speaking of our predictability,  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;if you have some time.&lt;/a&gt; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of our predictability,  <a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_ariely_asks_are_we_in_control_of_our_own_decisions.html" rel="nofollow">if you have some time.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-360928</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 03:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-360928</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Iâ€™m not even aware of ways to predict the exact probabilities for â€œstreaksâ€ at any particular time &lt;/em&gt;

Calculating the probability of a &quot;streak&quot; is straightforward.  It is just the product of the probabilities of each individual roll coming out the way you want.  So, the probability of rolling seven 1&#039;s in a row from a fair die is 1/6^7 or 1/279936.  The probability of this happening at any particular time is always the same.  

As to your assessment of the Calvinist god, you will find several people at this blog who share your view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Iâ€™m not even aware of ways to predict the exact probabilities for â€œstreaksâ€ at any particular time </em></p>
<p>Calculating the probability of a &#8220;streak&#8221; is straightforward.  It is just the product of the probabilities of each individual roll coming out the way you want.  So, the probability of rolling seven 1&#8242;s in a row from a fair die is 1/6^7 or 1/279936.  The probability of this happening at any particular time is always the same.  </p>
<p>As to your assessment of the Calvinist god, you will find several people at this blog who share your view.</p>
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		<title>By: Velska</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-360902</link>
		<dc:creator>Velska</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-360902</guid>
		<description>Matt, I had a similar crisis with similar circumstances. I had to find my own two feet to stand on, spiritually. And I thank God for it.

Also, I have had experiences like your #2. I&#039;ve known, when I&#039;ve been speaking to somebody, that I&#039;m going to be called to their calling, for example. 

Okay, in an infinite universe, even a relatively small number of coincidences can happen to the same guy? (I&#039;ve rolled a &#039;one&#039; seven times in a row while trying to get a six to be able to move on.) Maybe, but that doesn&#039;t take away my spiritual roots, because they&#039;re not based on a parlor game-type of &quot;predict this&quot; contest.

Probabilities may theoretically be incalculable by the nature of probability.  But let&#039;s talk about inclinations. If I&#039;m an alcoholic, who&#039;s not even trying to recover, what are the chances of a bottle of vodka surviving long on my kitchen table? That&#039;s not very complicated. But God is supposed to have an infinite mind that can perform calculations and contain information in a way that we can only imagine.

So yes, God knows something about future &#8212; perhaps he engineers at least some of it to come to pass by manipulating the ones around us, who follow him already by their own choice plus the natural world, which follows a logic he&#039;s already mastered long before he set anything in motion. So yes, we are talking about a chance far better than a crapshoot for him to know if I&#039;m going to commit adultery tomorrow.

As for the Calvinist idea: Hogwash. Utterly reject it. I apologize for my brutal attack to any Fundie Evangelicals reading, but the Calvinist God is the ultimate monster. He has &quot;lovingly&quot; created humans, who have been destined to eternal torture since before the beginning, while others are having the biggest party ever without doing anything to earn it? Right. In the face of a reality like that, I&#039;d be pretty sure to say I&#039;d rather go to Hell anyway, because I wouldn&#039;t want to associate with people like that.

My Father has given me a choice and a second chance already. 

Re rolling the seven &#039;ones&#039; in a row: Unless the die is weighted otherwise, the probability is the same every time. It doesn&#039;t matter how many ones I&#039;ve already rolled, it&#039;s always that 1/6 to get it. Now, if I roll it ten thousand times, it definitely starts looking like 1/6. That&#039;s what makes probability tough. Often theorists are not able to put it clearly. I&#039;m not even aware of ways to predict the exact probabilities for &quot;streaks&quot; at any particular time &#8212; as far as I understand, it is really impossible unless you know the die is heavily loaded, which just makes the 10,000 time repetition turn out differently. But I didn&#039;t pay much attention to probability anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I had a similar crisis with similar circumstances. I had to find my own two feet to stand on, spiritually. And I thank God for it.</p>
<p>Also, I have had experiences like your #2. I&#8217;ve known, when I&#8217;ve been speaking to somebody, that I&#8217;m going to be called to their calling, for example. </p>
<p>Okay, in an infinite universe, even a relatively small number of coincidences can happen to the same guy? (I&#8217;ve rolled a &#8216;one&#8217; seven times in a row while trying to get a six to be able to move on.) Maybe, but that doesn&#8217;t take away my spiritual roots, because they&#8217;re not based on a parlor game-type of &#8220;predict this&#8221; contest.</p>
<p>Probabilities may theoretically be incalculable by the nature of probability.  But let&#8217;s talk about inclinations. If I&#8217;m an alcoholic, who&#8217;s not even trying to recover, what are the chances of a bottle of vodka surviving long on my kitchen table? That&#8217;s not very complicated. But God is supposed to have an infinite mind that can perform calculations and contain information in a way that we can only imagine.</p>
<p>So yes, God knows something about future &mdash; perhaps he engineers at least some of it to come to pass by manipulating the ones around us, who follow him already by their own choice plus the natural world, which follows a logic he&#8217;s already mastered long before he set anything in motion. So yes, we are talking about a chance far better than a crapshoot for him to know if I&#8217;m going to commit adultery tomorrow.</p>
<p>As for the Calvinist idea: Hogwash. Utterly reject it. I apologize for my brutal attack to any Fundie Evangelicals reading, but the Calvinist God is the ultimate monster. He has &#8220;lovingly&#8221; created humans, who have been destined to eternal torture since before the beginning, while others are having the biggest party ever without doing anything to earn it? Right. In the face of a reality like that, I&#8217;d be pretty sure to say I&#8217;d rather go to Hell anyway, because I wouldn&#8217;t want to associate with people like that.</p>
<p>My Father has given me a choice and a second chance already. </p>
<p>Re rolling the seven &#8216;ones&#8217; in a row: Unless the die is weighted otherwise, the probability is the same every time. It doesn&#8217;t matter how many ones I&#8217;ve already rolled, it&#8217;s always that 1/6 to get it. Now, if I roll it ten thousand times, it definitely starts looking like 1/6. That&#8217;s what makes probability tough. Often theorists are not able to put it clearly. I&#8217;m not even aware of ways to predict the exact probabilities for &#8220;streaks&#8221; at any particular time &mdash; as far as I understand, it is really impossible unless you know the die is heavily loaded, which just makes the 10,000 time repetition turn out differently. But I didn&#8217;t pay much attention to probability anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-347594</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 14:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-347594</guid>
		<description>Mark D: I&#039;ve been thinking about how this applies to the past too, and reached the same conclusion: neither the past nor the future exist (only &quot;the eternal now&quot; for God and the more &quot;limited now&quot; for us). And since I&#039;m a &lt;em&gt;LOST &lt;/em&gt;fan, it got me thinking about changing the past. Since it doesn&#039;t exist, it cannot be tampered with, and the most that God (or historians) can do is mess with our memory of the past, effectively creating a new past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark D: I&#8217;ve been thinking about how this applies to the past too, and reached the same conclusion: neither the past nor the future exist (only &#8220;the eternal now&#8221; for God and the more &#8220;limited now&#8221; for us). And since I&#8217;m a <em>LOST </em>fan, it got me thinking about changing the past. Since it doesn&#8217;t exist, it cannot be tampered with, and the most that God (or historians) can do is mess with our memory of the past, effectively creating a new past.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark D.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-347546</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 03:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-347546</guid>
		<description>Aside from the joke, which I thought was very funny, the problem is in the premise of the question.

The present does not &quot;come from&quot; the future, like the roll of film in a movie projector.  If the present comes from anywhere, it comes from the past, and in a completely different sense.  There is no &quot;tape&quot;.

If the future cannot be &quot;seen&quot; for logical reasons,  the past almost certainly cannot directly be &quot;seen&quot; either.  The past doesn&#039;t exist anymore - that is why it can&#039;t be changed.  God may remember it in exhaustive detail, but it isn&#039;t &quot;out there&quot; somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aside from the joke, which I thought was very funny, the problem is in the premise of the question.</p>
<p>The present does not &#8220;come from&#8221; the future, like the roll of film in a movie projector.  If the present comes from anywhere, it comes from the past, and in a completely different sense.  There is no &#8220;tape&#8221;.</p>
<p>If the future cannot be &#8220;seen&#8221; for logical reasons,  the past almost certainly cannot directly be &#8220;seen&#8221; either.  The past doesn&#8217;t exist anymore &#8211; that is why it can&#8217;t be changed.  God may remember it in exhaustive detail, but it isn&#8217;t &#8220;out there&#8221; somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-347496</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 16:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-347496</guid>
		<description>Matt, I confess that I don&#039;t really understand your comment so I&#039;m not sure whether you got that I was joking, or that you also are joking, or what.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, I confess that I don&#8217;t really understand your comment so I&#8217;m not sure whether you got that I was joking, or that you also are joking, or what.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-347478</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 14:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-347478</guid>
		<description>BrianJ: In this sense, the existence of Captain Kirk may prove you right. But then, do we create concepts out of nothing, or are we limited to ideas and concepts we come in contact with. The Future is only a concept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BrianJ: In this sense, the existence of Captain Kirk may prove you right. But then, do we create concepts out of nothing, or are we limited to ideas and concepts we come in contact with. The Future is only a concept.</p>
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		<title>By: BrianJ</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-347393</link>
		<dc:creator>BrianJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 May 2009 06:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-347393</guid>
		<description>Matt, 15: &lt;blockquote&gt;Where does the future come from before we experience it as the present?
&lt;strong&gt;no where&lt;/strong&gt;.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Mormons believe in creatio ex nihilo after all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt, 15:<br />
<blockquote>Where does the future come from before we experience it as the present?<br />
<strong>no where</strong>.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mormons believe in creatio ex nihilo after all!</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/comment-page-1/#comment-204463</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 03:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2008/06/god-and-the-future/525/#comment-204463</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I donâ€™t know how many think the future exists, as I do, but it would be interesting to somehow take a poll on this.&lt;/em&gt;

Agreed, I would be interested in a poll as well.  A real one, though, not an internet one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I donâ€™t know how many think the future exists, as I do, but it would be interesting to somehow take a poll on this.</em></p>
<p>Agreed, I would be interested in a poll as well.  A real one, though, not an internet one.</p>
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