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	<title>Comments on: What is the proper definition of &#8220;spiritual&#8221;?</title>
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	<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/</link>
	<description>Mormon Musings by yer ol' pals</description>
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		<title>By: John Coltharp</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-101992</link>
		<dc:creator>John Coltharp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 05:28:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think being &quot;spiritual,&quot; or in other language, the level of someone&#039;s &quot;spirituality&quot; simply refers to how much a measure of the Holy Ghost someone has.

So to say &quot;women are more spiritual,&quot; would be to say that women enjoy a greater measure of the spirit than men.

I believe those who enjoy the spirit, enjoy certain qualities. A person who has the spirit is more like God. He/she may be more charitable, kind, compassionate, thoughtful, selfless, etc.

Men and women are different. Women are more emotional, whereas men are more intellectual/logical. This is a general statement, and not true in every case.

But perhaps a woman&#039;s emotional nature is interpreted as compassion, kindness, etc., whereas a man&#039;s intellect is perceived as being cold (I could see where many people think God is cold, because God is logical and to the point.)

Maybe this is why people say women are more spiritual.

But I think emotion and intellect (or the qualities associated therewith) are both good things bestowed by the spirit. And a women in her natural-man-state may be be too emotional, while a man in his natural state may be too intellectual. A perfect being would find the proper balance between the two.

I dont think, generally speaking, women and men are unequally yokes. Both are spiritual, but have different spiritual qualities, until they finally perfect themselves, and find a proper balance, and become one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think being &#8220;spiritual,&#8221; or in other language, the level of someone&#8217;s &#8220;spirituality&#8221; simply refers to how much a measure of the Holy Ghost someone has.</p>
<p>So to say &#8220;women are more spiritual,&#8221; would be to say that women enjoy a greater measure of the spirit than men.</p>
<p>I believe those who enjoy the spirit, enjoy certain qualities. A person who has the spirit is more like God. He/she may be more charitable, kind, compassionate, thoughtful, selfless, etc.</p>
<p>Men and women are different. Women are more emotional, whereas men are more intellectual/logical. This is a general statement, and not true in every case.</p>
<p>But perhaps a woman&#8217;s emotional nature is interpreted as compassion, kindness, etc., whereas a man&#8217;s intellect is perceived as being cold (I could see where many people think God is cold, because God is logical and to the point.)</p>
<p>Maybe this is why people say women are more spiritual.</p>
<p>But I think emotion and intellect (or the qualities associated therewith) are both good things bestowed by the spirit. And a women in her natural-man-state may be be too emotional, while a man in his natural state may be too intellectual. A perfect being would find the proper balance between the two.</p>
<p>I dont think, generally speaking, women and men are unequally yokes. Both are spiritual, but have different spiritual qualities, until they finally perfect themselves, and find a proper balance, and become one.</p>
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		<title>By: m&#38;m</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99510</link>
		<dc:creator>m&#38;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 22:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/#comment-99510</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s another &quot;more&quot; statement (actually a kind of two-for-one):

&lt;blockquote&gt;The concept of interdependent, equal partners is well-grounded in the doctrine of the restored gospel. Eve was Adamâ€™s â€œhelp meetâ€ (Genesis 2:18). The original Hebrew for meet means that Eve was adequate for, or equal to, Adam. She wasnâ€™t his servant or his subordinate. And the Hebrew for help in â€œhelp meetâ€ is ezer, a term meaning that Eve drew on heavenly powers when she supplied their marriage with the spiritual instincts uniquely available to women as a gender gift.

As President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, has said, men and women are by nature different, and while they share many basic human traits, the â€œvirtues and attributes upon which perfection and exaltation depend come [more] naturally to a woman.â€
(Bruce C. Hafen and Marie K. Hafen, â€œCrossing Thresholds and Becoming Equal Partners,â€ Ensign, Aug 2007,  24â€“29)&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s another &#8220;more&#8221; statement (actually a kind of two-for-one):</p>
<blockquote><p>The concept of interdependent, equal partners is well-grounded in the doctrine of the restored gospel. Eve was Adamâ€™s â€œhelp meetâ€ (Genesis 2:18). The original Hebrew for meet means that Eve was adequate for, or equal to, Adam. She wasnâ€™t his servant or his subordinate. And the Hebrew for help in â€œhelp meetâ€ is ezer, a term meaning that Eve drew on heavenly powers when she supplied their marriage with the spiritual instincts uniquely available to women as a gender gift.</p>
<p>As President Boyd K. Packer, Acting President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, has said, men and women are by nature different, and while they share many basic human traits, the â€œvirtues and attributes upon which perfection and exaltation depend come [more] naturally to a woman.â€<br />
(Bruce C. Hafen and Marie K. Hafen, â€œCrossing Thresholds and Becoming Equal Partners,â€ Ensign, Aug 2007,  24â€“29)</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99494</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/#comment-99494</guid>
		<description>On the topic of men&#039;s vs. women&#039;s spirituality I found these quotes:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Spirituality comes more naturally to some than to others. Spirituality is a spiritual gift.

I am persuaded that women are generally more spiritual than men. Perhaps this is because their unique gift of child-bearing, which places them at the wellspring of life, makes them more sensitive to eternal verities. Perhaps some of women&#039;s apparent superiority in spirituality is because historically they have remained in the home, less exposed to the anti-spiritual influences of the world than their male counterparts. If so, as more women are employed and exposed to anti-spiritual influences outside the home, they will need to make increased efforts to preserve and develop their spirituality.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Dallin H. Oaks, Pure in Heart [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988], 123.)


On the other hand...


Aileen Hales Clyde, second counselor in the general Relief Society presidency

&lt;blockquote&gt;It&#039;s not that women have a more innate spirituality than men, she said, but that 

&quot;women survive on it. I&#039;ve told my sons, you are lifted by the tide of the society in which you liveâ€”if you&#039;re good boys, you become deacons, teachers, priests, and you rise like this. And women who don&#039;t have those particular levels to go through... develop a spiritual sense of connection with the Lord, because if you don&#039;t, you don&#039;t have any spirituality.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Relief Society General Presidency: &#039;the Gospel Gives a Sense of , LDS Church News, 1990, 05/12/90 .)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the topic of men&#8217;s vs. women&#8217;s spirituality I found these quotes:</p>
<blockquote><p>Spirituality comes more naturally to some than to others. Spirituality is a spiritual gift.</p>
<p>I am persuaded that women are generally more spiritual than men. Perhaps this is because their unique gift of child-bearing, which places them at the wellspring of life, makes them more sensitive to eternal verities. Perhaps some of women&#8217;s apparent superiority in spirituality is because historically they have remained in the home, less exposed to the anti-spiritual influences of the world than their male counterparts. If so, as more women are employed and exposed to anti-spiritual influences outside the home, they will need to make increased efforts to preserve and develop their spirituality.</p></blockquote>
<p>(Dallin H. Oaks, Pure in Heart [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988], 123.)</p>
<p>On the other hand&#8230;</p>
<p>Aileen Hales Clyde, second counselor in the general Relief Society presidency</p>
<blockquote><p>It&#8217;s not that women have a more innate spirituality than men, she said, but that </p>
<p>&#8220;women survive on it. I&#8217;ve told my sons, you are lifted by the tide of the society in which you liveâ€”if you&#8217;re good boys, you become deacons, teachers, priests, and you rise like this. And women who don&#8217;t have those particular levels to go through&#8230; develop a spiritual sense of connection with the Lord, because if you don&#8217;t, you don&#8217;t have any spirituality.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>(Relief Society General Presidency: &#8216;the Gospel Gives a Sense of , LDS Church News, 1990, 05/12/90 .)</p>
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		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99489</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 20:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/#comment-99489</guid>
		<description>Here are some GA definitions of spirituality:

Elder Antoine R. Ivins of the First Council of the Seventy

&lt;blockquote&gt;The recognition that we are the sons and daughters of God, spiritually born of him, it seems to me, is a starting place if you are going to try to define spirituality. Then it seems to me to be a feeling of nearness to God, our Heavenly Father, a devotion to his cause, and a determination to acquit ourselves to the utmost of our ability, of the responsibility he has given us in life.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(elder Antoine R. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1955, Afternoon Meeting 76.)

Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, of the Quorum of the Twelve: 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Supplementing the dictionary definition of spirituality, he explained that spirituality is of or pertaining to that which promotes the eternal exaltation of man.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Adults, Improvement Era, 1936, Vol. Xxxix. March, 1936. No. 3.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some GA definitions of spirituality:</p>
<p>Elder Antoine R. Ivins of the First Council of the Seventy</p>
<blockquote><p>The recognition that we are the sons and daughters of God, spiritually born of him, it seems to me, is a starting place if you are going to try to define spirituality. Then it seems to me to be a feeling of nearness to God, our Heavenly Father, a devotion to his cause, and a determination to acquit ourselves to the utmost of our ability, of the responsibility he has given us in life.</p></blockquote>
<p>(elder Antoine R. Ivins, Conference Report, April 1955, Afternoon Meeting 76.)</p>
<p>Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, of the Quorum of the Twelve: </p>
<blockquote><p>Supplementing the dictionary definition of spirituality, he explained that spirituality is of or pertaining to that which promotes the eternal exaltation of man.</p></blockquote>
<p>(Adults, Improvement Era, 1936, Vol. Xxxix. March, 1936. No. 3.)</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99345</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/#comment-99345</guid>
		<description>Gotcha m&amp;m.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gotcha m&#038;m.</p>
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		<title>By: m&#38;m</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99344</link>
		<dc:creator>m&#38;m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 23:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>61,
Geoff, dear brother, I was restating what Pres. Faust said. I have told you I&#039;m still not sure what to think about this issue, excepting the agreement on the fact that by your definition I don&#039;t think women are more spiritual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>61,<br />
Geoff, dear brother, I was restating what Pres. Faust said. I have told you I&#8217;m still not sure what to think about this issue, excepting the agreement on the fact that by your definition I don&#8217;t think women are more spiritual.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99325</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/#comment-99325</guid>
		<description>Jacob,

I can see why you might have assumed that.  But your specific comment in #58 was &quot;it does not follow from this that you served through no free choice of your own&quot;.  I never claimed my choice to go on a mission wasn&#039;t free at all so I think that was mistaking my position entirely.

However, I would say that if all women are born more &quot;spiritual&quot; than men then it is safe to say that their innate spirituality is not a result of  choice here on earth.

You are right that I missed the all important &quot;on average&quot; caveat you threw into that comment in #50 though.  So I can see why my &quot;Probably&quot; response would be misleading.

Last, I think your &quot;on average&quot; assumption is a much stronger position than what I have seen actually quoted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacob,</p>
<p>I can see why you might have assumed that.  But your specific comment in #58 was &#8220;it does not follow from this that you served through no free choice of your own&#8221;.  I never claimed my choice to go on a mission wasn&#8217;t free at all so I think that was mistaking my position entirely.</p>
<p>However, I would say that if all women are born more &#8220;spiritual&#8221; than men then it is safe to say that their innate spirituality is not a result of  choice here on earth.</p>
<p>You are right that I missed the all important &#8220;on average&#8221; caveat you threw into that comment in #50 though.  So I can see why my &#8220;Probably&#8221; response would be misleading.</p>
<p>Last, I think your &#8220;on average&#8221; assumption is a much stronger position than what I have seen actually quoted.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99321</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:06:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I haven&#039;t seen any quates that said &quot;every single woman is more spiritual than every single man&quot; If we go with the starter &quot;women are more spiritual than men&quot; I think it can be read either way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen any quates that said &#8220;every single woman is more spiritual than every single man&#8221; If we go with the starter &#8220;women are more spiritual than men&#8221; I think it can be read either way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99315</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Geoff (#60),

&lt;em&gt;I never said it did so Iâ€™m not sure why you are making that obvious point either.&lt;/em&gt;

Well, it seems like you did say this.  I thought I asked this question specifically and you answered it directly.

In #42 you said: &lt;em&gt;Basically you are saying, â€œall women are sure lucky they are spiritual by no free choice of their ownâ€&lt;/em&gt;

In #50, I asked if being born into a group with higher average spirituality really means I am spiritual through no free choice of my own.

In #53 you quoted my question and answered: &lt;em&gt;Probably.&lt;/em&gt;

Moving on to my red herring.  It is possible I am giving too much credit to the position I am defending.  I assumed people were suggesting that women are generally, statistically, on average, etc. more spiritual than men.  If I&#039;ve misunderstood that side of the debate then please ignore the red herring and stay on track.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff (#60),</p>
<p><em>I never said it did so Iâ€™m not sure why you are making that obvious point either.</em></p>
<p>Well, it seems like you did say this.  I thought I asked this question specifically and you answered it directly.</p>
<p>In #42 you said: <em>Basically you are saying, â€œall women are sure lucky they are spiritual by no free choice of their ownâ€</em></p>
<p>In #50, I asked if being born into a group with higher average spirituality really means I am spiritual through no free choice of my own.</p>
<p>In #53 you quoted my question and answered: <em>Probably.</em></p>
<p>Moving on to my red herring.  It is possible I am giving too much credit to the position I am defending.  I assumed people were suggesting that women are generally, statistically, on average, etc. more spiritual than men.  If I&#8217;ve misunderstood that side of the debate then please ignore the red herring and stay on track.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff J</title>
		<link>http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/comment-page-2/#comment-99311</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2007/08/what-is-the-proper-definition-of-spiritual/427/#comment-99311</guid>
		<description>m&amp;m,

So does that mean you contend that all females are born with &quot;more trust in the Lord [and] more hope in his word&quot; than males?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>m&#038;m,</p>
<p>So does that mean you contend that all females are born with &#8220;more trust in the Lord [and] more hope in his word&#8221; than males?</p>
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