Comments on: Graphing Eternal Progression

By: Mondo Cool

Mondo Cool — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:15:04 +0000

Matt W.:
There currently is some gap between us and God. Contemplating can be a waste. (Remember Tevye:
The most important men in town would come to fawn on me!
They would ask me to advise them,
Like a Solomon the Wise.
“If you please, Reb Tevye…”
“Pardon me, Reb Tevye…”
Posing problems that would cross a rabbi’s eyes!
And it won’t make one bit of difference if i answer right or wrong.
When you’re rich, they think you really know!)
But, if it is a waste of time, then I am guilty too. There may be some amongst your in-laws who are concerned it is a waste of time. But, for me… full steam ahead. Contemplating is essential, as long as it doesn’t replace service, which is my wife’s main point.

By: Matt W.

Matt W. — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:45:15 +0000

Ok, Pops :), from your view, we are 3D beings having a 2D experience and thus we can not fully comprehend life in 3D at this point. In one way or another, this is a sensible view. Now I am trying to understand your point. Is your point that contemplating what it’s like to be 3D does not actually help us to become 3D, and so I am wasting our time drawing the graphs? Thus the graphs are useless? Is your point that since God is 3D and we are 2D, there is currently some sort of gap between us. (ontological? I’m not that smart.)

By: Mondo Cool

Mondo Cool — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:01:01 +0000

GJ:
I’ll freely admit that my attempts at illustration are inadequte. I have temporal looking glasses on. My take: eternity is composed of something in addition to linear time and I’m incapable of specifying exactly what that “something more” is. “For since the beginning of the world have not men heard nor perceived by the ear, neither hath any eye seen, O God, besides thee, how great things thou hast prepared for him that waiteth for thee.” (D&C 133:45) I perceive and see temporal linearity. I can easily conceptualize time stretching back to a beginningless past and projected into an unending future. My take: God has prepared a wonderful addition to temporal linearity which we will understand as eternity.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 05:11:49 +0000

Mark — I don’t disagree with any of that.

Mondo — I still have no idea how how what you are describing is anything different than linear time. The whole ring vs.globe thing doesn’t add any insight as far as I can tell.

By: Mark D.

Mark D. — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:54:09 +0000

Geoff,

The angels can reside in presence of God on a “globe like a sea of glass and fire”, and have all things “for their glory” manifest to them without that sphere needing to be some sort of temporal projection system.

The standard objection is that if anyone could see the actual future, it would be too late for them to do anything about it, making the purported “future” actually past.

The things past and future manifest unto them might rather be records and depictions of the past, and plans and probable (not actual) projections for the future.

By: Mondo Cool

Mondo Cool — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:49:38 +0000

GJ:
Yes.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 21:02:51 +0000

Ok… though I don’t see the material difference between the ring and globe analogies. Time would still rap around itself in either if we take them literally right?

By: Mondo Cool

Mondo Cool — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 20:57:14 +0000

GJ:
Yes, that is the standard definition. But, my take is that eternity is all time combined and something more. If you want to go to JS’s ring analogy, then the end of time wraps around on itself, but is still two-dimensional. My take: eternity is a sphere and more – maybe “a globe like a sea of glass and fire.”

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:53:18 +0000

Ok, so if you are just saying that eternity is a word for all time combined then I don’t see how anyone could object. Isn’t that the standard definition?

By: Mondo Cool

Mondo Cool — Tue, 17 Apr 2007 19:28:06 +0000

Geoff J: Sorry to have persisted so long without getting across my take on the topic. I apologize. I'm not sure where I said eternity was void of time (nontemporal) or separate from time (supratemporal). The linearity of temporal succession is, if you allow, two-dimensional. My take: eternity includes the dimension of time and some dimensions more. If you have a shirt (eternity), you have a thread (time).