Comments on: Does “goodly” mean “wealthy”?

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:46:39 +0000

Interesting feedback gfe — thanks. It may not tell us what God/Nephi/JS meant but it does indicate what the translation committee in SLC thinks it means at least.

By: gfe

gfe — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:38:40 +0000

For whatever it’s worth, the church’s official Spanish translation of the Book of Mormon uses buenos for “goodly.” Bueno is a very common adjective usually translated as “good.”

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Tue, 08 Jan 2008 00:06:50 +0000

That’s true. Seems like a little more of a stretch going that route though. If it was the teleprompter method and Joseph simply transcribed why wouldn’t God use whatever language would be most clear to the millions of future readers rather than giving wording designed for an audience of one (Joseph)? Seems like a backwards way to go about explaining goodly=good is all.

By: Jacob J

Jacob J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:09:22 +0000

Yes, that is my point, even a person who believes in the transcription theory might adopt your reading of goodly. That’s not my inclination (as I expressed in #30), but it is a reasonable position.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:26:17 +0000

Well if that is the case then God and Nephi meant goodly=good right? God knew how Joseph used the term “goodly” after all and it is clear that for Joseph goodly=good (not wealthy).

By: Jacob J

Jacob J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:17:48 +0000

If you are a teleprompter guy you wholly reject that premise from the get-go.

Not necessarily, it depends on where the teleprompter text came from (there are multiple options). One option includes the possibility that the teleprompter text is tailored to Joseph’s language.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:16:23 +0000

The idea is that “goodly parents” is a Joseph-ism not a Nephi-ism. If you are a teleprompter guy you wholly reject that premise from the get-go. I am much more of an expansion believer so I think the BoM has Joseph-isms all over it. So if Joseph used goodly to mean good then that is what he meant as he translated whatever wording Nephi used in his language.

By: Jacob J

Jacob J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:12:12 +0000

Geoff,

Truly a disappointing response given that exactly two sentences (first paragraph) in my lengthy response rely on a teleprompter.

By: Geoff J

Geoff J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:10:16 +0000

Oy — I forgot you were a teleprompter guy… There’s no reasoning with that type ;-)

By: Jacob J

Jacob J — Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:34:45 +0000

Yes, I was already aware of this quote but I saw it in the lesson yesterday as well. It is a pretty interesting point, thanks for raising it here. As a person who leans toward the transcription method of “translation” (what you call the ticker-tape) this is not as compelling an argument for me as it is for you. But, I see your point.

It is interesting to note that this quote above is structured very much like 1 Nephi 1:1 except that it lacks the “therefore” structure. Joseph says his parents were goodly AND took pains to instruct him in the Christian religion. Instructing him in hte Christian religion requires no special training or resources other than being good God-fearing people so this holds together.

On the other hand, Nephi says his parents were goodly therefore he was in the learning of his father, which, as we learn in the next verse, includes being at least bilingual (likely trilingual). This kind of training (as opposed to training in Christian religion) would have required economic resources, which we later find out Lehi had. So, the internal evidence easily supports a different meaning in the Book of Mormon than the one used by Joseph Smith above.

Keep in mind that Joseph made his statement after translating the Book of Mormon and may very well have been patterning his comment after the one in the Book of Mormon without an understanding of Nephi’s real intent with the word “goodly.” Joseph notoriously lacked and understanding of the full depth of the Book of Mormon text as evidenced by his statements about BoM geography and other similar issues. I personally tend to think that this is the explanation for the similarity, i.e. that Joseph phrased it to match 1 Nephi 1:1 rather than his understanding of “goodly” coming first as an explanation for the meaning of the verse.