I agree with your sentiments, but rather than bypassing the issue of progression between kingdoms you affirmed it. If our glory is inextricably tied to who we are (as you suggest) then we belong to some glory now (presumably not celestial). If we continue to change and can progress indefinitely (as you suggest) then we can move from our current kingdom of glory to the celestial. Viola, progression between kingdoms.

All this comes into who we have become, and will be part of our judgment. It is not just base on 72.8 years of a mortal probation but on everything up to this point. That is potentially a lot of information in the hands of a God.

The problem I see with this type of notion is that lets, conservative guess, that we existed as a formed spirit for 5000 years, and that this amount of data went into our judgment. If 5000 years wasn’t enough, why is 5072.8 years suddenly enough? And if 5000 was enough, why was it even necessary for us to be born? No… I think it is a maturity issue. WE continue to advance until, at the extreme end: we have either made our calling and election sure or comitted the unpardonable sin, or something more neutral, we have decided we want to advance no further and have stopped utilizing the time given to us for this purpose.

As we attain one of these points, God could place an eternal judgment on us because we have already made up our minds. If there is room for a wavering mind on the subject, then we haven’t made it up yet.

If one is going to try to give a push for the idea that permanent negative judgment is a crock, one would also have to demonstrate that permanent positive judgment is a crock. That an exalted being can become damned. I’m not sure, and I need to study more on this before I take up sides.

Sorry for labouring the point – I can see you are trying to move on with a new post so this will be my last question/s.

It seems to me that your rational behind mmp is that a loving God would always give his children the ability to progress if this is what they desire, despite potentially not showing that desire in this life. You also stated that not everyone will reach exaltation.

In your model, are there then ultimately two sets of people – one that wll eventually be exalted. and one set that will eventually be cast off, as they have no desire to progress?

If the answer to this question is no, then please dont feel you have to explain any further, I obviously just dont get it – and I’ll move on with my life and allow you to do the same.

It was a very interesting post though.

I wrote a whole follow up post to pick up this conversation afresh…

The only thing MMP does is explain the mechanism by which there is eternal progression or retrogression

But there is no way to progress in such a system unless you can take something of the previous experence with you. The necessity for the vail is explained previously, but we recieve atleast some of the knowedge we would have known if the vail was not there through scriptures, prohpets, the Holy Ghost etc. There is no nuch provision in MMP, because there is no way the previous experences can reach the new probation.

First, why would you assume that describing God in terms like “omniscient and eternal” would be at odds with describing him in terms like “loving”? They seems like the complement each other to me rather than compete as descriptions of God.

You are fendelmentally misinterpeting what I have said. It seemsce since you have argued elsewhere that omiessence is contradictory with agency and punishment is not eternal (or am I wrong), you are substituting a system that, intead of emphising these terms exaults another in its stead.

My main point was that these are mere appoximatations of what God is, using our flawed language. God is far beyound our ability to discribe him because His state is so different from ours. Stating that this is more consistant with “a loving God” forgets that what we view as “loving” might be different than what God is in any particular instance. Thus, I find it utamately futile, speaking respectully here, to speculate much on things we only have a shakey knowedge on. In this way, I am not saying you are wrong, mearly there is no way to tell if you are right.

I know this might be an arcane and difficult to understand. It connects to the way language operates at a level people do not think about often. I find my own attempts to express myself on this point are hampered by the very language I use.

I will also repeat what I said before.

By the way, I am not saying that God is not any of these things or ultimately unknowable, but rather we know God through these words initially and our knowledge grows beyond these words as we grow closer to God.

Now if I am on a different planet and have a different body and no memories, but I have the same personality due to the fact that I have the advantage of the moral advances I made in prior experiences and my character manifests itself, then I suppose that we could say that is person is morally-relevantly-similar to me. Perhaps we could say that we have the same character though we are not the same person. Yet this latter example doesn’t seem like an example of another mortal probation, but of eternal progression. Moreover, if I am glorified by the added degree of light that I accepted in this life, then we have a notion of eternal progression, but it doesn’t require several mortal probations. Why not begin in whatever new experiences present themselves with the benefit of the body the immortal body that I had before?

It also seems to me that scriptures about the immortal nature of the the resurrected body are at odds with the view that we slough off such a body and begin a mortality again. I believe that we go on to all kinds of new and challenging experiences after this life (just as we did before this life), but I believe that in doing so we have the benefit of the body that we have glorified and received in the resurrection (as our scriptures repeatedly state). Otherwise, the nature of the body and the benefits of having such a body would seem to be totally superfluous since each mortal probation would bring a new body with a different glory — and frankly a new identity altogether.

AS to why the forgetting-that same question could be asked of the single probation model. The same answers apply as well.

The single probation model positions the veil so we can develop faith in this life, somthing that would be impossible if we had an absolute knowedge of God from our premortal life. There is no such rational for forgetting previous lives, because one was operating by faith then, so will it be in the next probationary state. This is what I meant to say on ninemoons.