It’s good to see you back here as well. I’m not sure how much we have specifically talked about the Greek notion of timelessness in my posts. The notion of timelessness or not has been brought up and debated regularly in my series of posts on God’s foreknowledge though. For further reading on the subject of God being timebound (beyond this McMurrin book) I highly recommend Blake Ostler’s first book (even if it is a bit too long).

Lol! Nice work. You totally called me on my laziness (using the one obscure phrase to try to explain lots of complex things… I usually scrupulously avoid that kind of dirty trick here…)

I think you have much of it. I will indeed post on this in the future because I think McMurrin does a nice job of illuminating the differences between Mormon conceptions ofthe nature of God and the creedal ideas. Apparently St. Augustine was the most influential of the classical Christian theologians and it is largely from him that we get the “ommi” notions of God and from there creatio ex nihilo. (The main omni’s being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent.) So while we like to use the big 3 omni’s in Mormonism we don’t define them the same way that creedal Christianity does because modern revelations have gutted the classical definitions. I think that Blake Ostler was really on to something when he suggested we replace “omni” with “maximal” in our internal discussions. It is certainly a more precise and accurate way to describe our revealed understanding of God I think.

I should have been more precise and said the ulitimate foundation for “parable of the bicycle”-like notions is in Augustinian absolutism (which is inextricably connected with ex nihilo). Since modern revelations have gutted classical absolutist assumptions any doctrine that leans on them is in trouble. I’ll get more into this as I post further on the McMurrin book.

Huh? Whachoo talkin’ ’bout, Geoff?

My take on his quote is that we can “visit” the past when God shares the databases with us much like the way Harry Potter and Dumbledore “visit” the past using the pensieve. That is, God can clearly read all of our minds and thoughts so it is very likely that he also has all past thoughts and perceptions stored and it seems likely to me that he can and does share that database with those with whom he is becoming “one”. Moses had an experience approaching this when he had his mind opened to some of the expansive knowledge of God. God does not have the future in a database yet because it has nbot happened yet for him either.

Christian and Jeff,
I’m completely on board with the figurative garden representing the pre-earth existence. I also believe that causal determinism (or at least something very much like it) is real. I just believe that there is the opportunity and potential for truly self-caused (in the full libertarian sense) thoughts, words, and deeds in humans.

cadams,
Huh?

As another example, I was spooked when you brought up the Garden of Eden as premortal life, because I had thought that for several years.

There’s something to be said for speed and volume over polish—especially on blogs, where the main thing seems to be to get the ideas out. (You’ve got so many of your ideas out at M&E while mine dribble out ever so slowly.) I take way too long to write anything, and always fall behind the discussions. It almost feels paralyzing sometimes.