Think of it, an eternal marriage occurs here, then another on E+1, +2, +3, and so on. Unless by some miracle they marry the same person in every life (what are the odds?) then you’ll not only have a husband with multiple wives, which the scriptures indicate does happen in some cases, like Jacob, or Israel, (though definitely not all) but also a wife with multiple husbands, which the scriptures indicate canNOT happen in eternity. For the sake of the concept, though, we’ll pretend it could. When we reach the final stage, what confusion will reign in trying to determine who’s an eternal companion to whom. That is one REALLY tangled web, unless you suggest some sort of eternal free-love society, which defeats the purpose OF marriage in the first place.

Very much so. True, extreme poverty where people are dying as a result changes this equation, and extreme relative poverty makes people unhappy, but absolute poverty does not seem to stop them from being happy.

I was reading in the epistle of Joseph (D&C 132) where it talked about if someone would have accepted the gospel with all their hearts had they been given the opportunity they will be celestial.

So that “if” is huge here. If we really have free will and the future really is open, then there is only one way to know what a person will do during probations, and that is to let them have the full probation. Any other solution assumes we are judged based on God deciding what he believes we were going to do.

Further, I don’t believe we are really judged on what we do anyway. I think we are judged on two things: What we are, and who we know. I am writing a post on this already, but briefly; what we are means what is our character and nature (not what is might become if we continue to repent); and in a related concept, how well we actually know God determines our condition after this life. The two concepts (our natures and the closeness of our relationship with God) are inextricably intertwined I think.

Does not vicarious work for the dead contradict a MMP model?

I don’t think it does. Continuing repentance in the spirit world allows people to continue their probation after all. It allows them to work on “who they know and what they are”. Our work for them here allows us to do the very same thing while even allowing us to be rescuers to them in a type and shadow of the way Christ rescues us.

The progress we make (or not) on who we know and what we are is the explanation of why there is so much inequality in the lives of people in mortal probations though (based on our choices and judgments before this world). Without it we have a harder time understanding why some people are born with all the spiritual advantages in this world while others have almost none.

When I combine this with what I read in ALMA 11 and ALMA 12, D&C 132, D&C 76

Interestingly, I see evidence for MMP in all of those scriptures. It has a lot to do with the assumptions we bring in I think.

Mormon Doctrine on second chances and reincarnation it gets pretty convincing for me.

Elder McConkie clearly didn’t believe in MMP. However, Heber C. Kimball, Orson Hyde, Brigham Young, Eliza R. Snow, and many other 19th century apostles and leaders did. It is not one of those things that the Lord has chosen to settle for the whole church. Therefore, I certainly don’t begrudge anyone for rejecting the notion of MMP. I like the idea and believe it might be true for lots of reasons but it remains a doctrine that is still unsettled in the church and I’m fine with that.

Is anything about saxaphones cheap any more?

Nope. I recommend you look up band instrument repair in your local yellow pages and talk with a good local repair person. They can usually either fix it or recommend godd places to order replacement parts.

I was reading in the epistle of Joseph (D&C 132) where it talked about if someone would have accepted the gospel with all their hearts had they been given the opportunity they will be celestial. This supports my view of a perfect judge which to me renders additional probations unnecessary. I then thought of madifying another scripture something like this:

Else what shall they do that are baptized for the dead if there are multiple mortal probations? Why are they then baptized for the dead?

Does not vicarious work for the dead contradict a MMP model? Would it not be ‘better’ for someone to be baptized on their own in another probation that to receive one vicariously? But I do not believe that is the plan. I am starting to firm up my opinion of the plan being SMP, vicarious work, perfect judge. When I combine this with what I read in ALMA 11 and ALMA 12, D&C 132, D&C 76, Mormon Doctrine on second chances and reincarnation it gets pretty convincing for me.

By the way, your a saxaphone player. I have an alto sax that has a broken octave key support. It has broken off and is lost. It would probably not be easy to fix. Can you buy an inexpensive gooseneck for an alto sax? Are they fairly universal? Is anything about saxaphones cheap any more?

Isn’t MMP like a teacher who keeps giving extra credit assignments until everyone gets an A+? When does it end?

I don’t think so. I think there is a chance for F or A+… Exaltation on one hand or “destruction of the soul” on the other. We are just given enough time to decide what we will choose.

As for when it ends… That is one of the the great and terrible questions isn’t it? One answer could be that it is constantly ending for the old us because the old us is always being replaced by the current us, and the current us is either more or less Godlike than the old us depending on our choices. In another sense, we are eternal beings so there are some essential parts of us for which it (life) will never end… (see my various posts on related topics here)

I think most of you foreknowledge questions have been discussed in this series of posts. Check them out and let me know if other parts remain unanswered.

Isn’t MMP like a teacher who keeps giving extra credit assignments until everyone gets an A+? When does it end? Is there never a line in the sand that says – enough already, this is you’re resurrection? Will everyone be in the Celestial Kingdom eventually? Even Satan and his followers? If there ever is a deadline, why would MMP be any better than MMP-1?

And then exhaustive foreknowledge. I may be stupid, but I have never had a problem with 100% forekknowledge of God and 100% freedom for me. I see 0% contradiction in this combination, but others seem to. Also, what about prophecy? There have been a few specific profecies given. Were these just good forcasts of what might happen if everyone uses their agency as God expects? Wasn’t Nephi and others shown future events of the world? I have no problem currently with God knowing the future.

I’m really not trying to be disagreeable, just trying to sort out some opinions.

Which one of God’s children does not have the potential to become Celestial? Doesn’t being the children of God mean that 100% of humankind has the potential to become like him? Simply because someone does not acheive that as a result of this probation does not mean that they “ultimately did not have that potential”.

My only doctrinal ‘evidence’ for this is in Christ being an all knowing and perfect judge, which should not be in dispute.

I would dispute your definition of “all knowing”… (see here) I believe God knows all that can be known, but that the future acts of truly free beings are not among the knowable things in this Universe. Therefore, coming to earth is not to simply play out a fixed future, but rather to let God test us in an open (read: non-fixed) future just as our scriptures claim:

And we will prove them herewith, to see if they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them (Abr 3:25)

Why bother coming to eath at all then? I believe it is strictly for our benefit. I believe that God could have judged us prior to even coming to earth, but for our benefit did not. Of course all of this is probably dead wrong.

No, of course not. I’m confused… Did I imply this somewhere?

I think maybe what I did not make clear is that I believe our spiritual “power” and even “glory” are and will forever be directly correlated with our character and also with the nature of our relationship with God. Therefore if a person with a Telestial character continues to have agency after this life then that person still has the intrinsic potential to repent and become Terrestrial natured or even Celestial natured over the eternities to come, regardless of what “kingdom” they are assigned to as a result of this probation. I think that if we believe agency continues then the capacity for progression (or regression) between “kingdoms” also continues.