Comments on: The Parable of the Mortgage http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/ Mormon Musings by yer ol' pals Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:02:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Geoff J http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2711 Geoff J Wed, 06 Jul 2005 03:10:45 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2711 My favorite part was comparing our sin to compound interest working against us... That way the atonement really does save us. I will have to consider some amendments that will allow me to keep that part but avoid the natural assumptions of moving in to the mansion that come with a mortgage... Hmmm, this will take some more tinkering I think. My favorite part was comparing our sin to compound interest working against us… That way the atonement really does save us. I will have to consider some amendments that will allow me to keep that part but avoid the natural assumptions of moving in to the mansion that come with a mortgage… Hmmm, this will take some more tinkering I think.

]]> By: Mark Simmons http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2708 Mark Simmons Wed, 06 Jul 2005 02:41:18 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2708 Maybe you could change it to the Parable of the 401(k) where you become a millionaire in the next life and live in perpetuity on the interest. Maybe you could change it to the Parable of the 401(k) where you become a millionaire in the next life and live in perpetuity on the interest.

]]> By: Geoff J http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2705 Geoff J Wed, 06 Jul 2005 01:06:04 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2705 Good point Mark. I tried to get around that problem by saying the job we must take keeps us perpetually on the road and that we cannot actually enjoy the mansion until it is paid off. But the fact is that a mortgage is traditionally designed to allow people to live in and enjoy a home prior to paying it off. I will have to think about whether I should just add more details to the caveats or change the analogy entirely... Good point Mark. I tried to get around that problem by saying the job we must take keeps us perpetually on the road and that we cannot actually enjoy the mansion until it is paid off. But the fact is that a mortgage is traditionally designed to allow people to live in and enjoy a home prior to paying it off. I will have to think about whether I should just add more details to the caveats or change the analogy entirely…

]]> By: Mark Simmons http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2703 Mark Simmons Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:30:07 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2703 The benefits of mortgage financing is that you get to enjoy the benefits of living in a house that is your private residence complete with all the benefits that implies. In many ways the benefits of living in that home after the loan has been paid off is no better than living in the home when you first assume the mortgage and only have nominal equity in the asset. Although there are many blessings from living the gospel in this life, the substance of the blessings come to fruition after the resurrection. There's no real comparison to "enjoying your mansion on high" and the "boot camp" of mortality. If the Parable of the Mortgage were applicable, I would get to enjoy my glorified body and streets of gold NOW, with the caveat that those amazing grants could be repossessed if I don't live out my mortality faithfully every month of every year. The benefits of mortgage financing is that you get to enjoy the benefits of living in a house that is your private residence complete with all the benefits that implies. In many ways the benefits of living in that home after the loan has been paid off is no better than living in the home when you first assume the mortgage and only have nominal equity in the asset.

Although there are many blessings from living the gospel in this life, the substance of the blessings come to fruition after the resurrection. There’s no real comparison to “enjoying your mansion on high” and the “boot camp” of mortality. If the Parable of the Mortgage were applicable, I would get to enjoy my glorified body and streets of gold NOW, with the caveat that those amazing grants could be repossessed if I don’t live out my mortality faithfully every month of every year.

]]> By: Geoff J http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2641 Geoff J Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:16:27 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2641 Not bad, Ned. I like the part about only making our payments to Christ and no other "gods" (creditors). Sounds similar to the law of consecration to me -- I was aiming for that in my variation too. The parable name could use some work though... ;-) In fact I'll edit it to include a part about debt consolidation... Thanks for the idea. Not bad, Ned. I like the part about only making our payments to Christ and no other “gods” (creditors). Sounds similar to the law of consecration to me — I was aiming for that in my variation too. The parable name could use some work though… ;-)

In fact I’ll edit it to include a part about debt consolidation… Thanks for the idea.

]]> By: NFlanders http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2633 NFlanders Mon, 04 Jul 2005 08:41:25 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2633 Perhaps the debt consolidation business could also be an analogy. People run up large amounts of debt on several credit cards and can barely afford to make the minimum payments (while the debts continue to grow). Jesus consolidates our debt with the various creditors but we have to cut up our credit cards and agree to pay the monthly payment (which we can afford if we budget wisely and don't start spending again). If we were making the same payment without the consolidation, we would never be able to pay off the debt. I think your parable should be called the "Parable of Negative Amortization." Perhaps the debt consolidation business could also be an analogy. People run up large amounts of debt on several credit cards and can barely afford to make the minimum payments (while the debts continue to grow). Jesus consolidates our debt with the various creditors but we have to cut up our credit cards and agree to pay the monthly payment (which we can afford if we budget wisely and don’t start spending again). If we were making the same payment without the consolidation, we would never be able to pay off the debt.

I think your parable should be called the “Parable of Negative Amortization.”

]]> By: Geoff J http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2614 Geoff J Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:16:03 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2614 <strong>arj:</strong> <em>Both parables are flawed on their face in that all you need is more money. There is no aspect of repentance.</em> I think you are missing the point John. The money is repentance/righteousness and the debt is sin/unrighteousness. Obviously the benefactor is Christ. <strong>Casey</strong> -- You can build whatever mansion you want. Just know that the mortgage cost doesn't go down. (We're talking about Godhood here after all. There are no discounts and no shortcuts on the principal.) And yes, it is nice to know we do have eternity to keep at it if we so choose. arj: Both parables are flawed on their face in that all you need is more money. There is no aspect of repentance.

I think you are missing the point John. The money is repentance/righteousness and the debt is sin/unrighteousness. Obviously the benefactor is Christ.

Casey — You can build whatever mansion you want. Just know that the mortgage cost doesn’t go down. (We’re talking about Godhood here after all. There are no discounts and no shortcuts on the principal.) And yes, it is nice to know we do have eternity to keep at it if we so choose.

]]> By: Casey Blau http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2613 Casey Blau Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:13:19 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2613 Nice parable, but what if I want a nice log cabin in the woods, Just as nice as my Fathers but of my own choosing, along the lines of there are many mansions(houses, cabins, huts etc) in my Fathers Kingdom. See there are infinte rewards to fill our hearts desires. Now as far as the price goes, the interest as you put it would be huge and the principle would be also. I think most of us would have trouble getting just the down payment together before we show up at signing. I am glad we have eternity to finish the payments. Nice parable, but what if I want a nice log cabin in the woods, Just as nice as my Fathers but of my own choosing, along the lines of there are many mansions(houses, cabins, huts etc) in my Fathers Kingdom. See there are infinte rewards to fill our hearts desires. Now as far as the price goes, the interest as you put it would be huge and the principle would be also. I think most of us would have trouble getting just the down payment together before we show up at signing. I am glad we have eternity to finish the payments.

]]> By: Geoff J http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2611 Geoff J Mon, 04 Jul 2005 01:04:27 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2611 <strong>Daylan:</strong> <em>Can we really get a house like He has?</em> Not everyone believes that we can, but I do. The parable works best when we think of our goal as becoming someday what God is now. Yes he will be far ast that by then but at least it gives us a target. The fact that God coniues to increase in glory does put a kink in the mansion analogy though. <em>If our Father owns everything in the universe, why is he/we paying Interest?</em> The payment is the just punishment for our sins. I am saying that our sins here weigh us down so much that without the atonement we would never leave this probation better than we started. This is the payment for sins that justice demands I'm talking about here. <em>This is kinda the opposite of the parable of the workers</em> I don't think so. That parable to me means that sincere and complete repentance leads to Christ paying for our sins. Whether we start young or old that can happen. But I am saying that payment for sins only gets us back to the even. It only pays the interest but none of the principal. The real progress we make toward godhood is the repenting we do after we are justified. After a bad man becomes good, then the gospel also makes good men better. Over the eternities a good man that keeps getting better ends up exalted and just like God. Daylan: Can we really get a house like He has?

Not everyone believes that we can, but I do. The parable works best when we think of our goal as becoming someday what God is now. Yes he will be far ast that by then but at least it gives us a target. The fact that God coniues to increase in glory does put a kink in the mansion analogy though.

If our Father owns everything in the universe, why is he/we paying Interest?

The payment is the just punishment for our sins. I am saying that our sins here weigh us down so much that without the atonement we would never leave this probation better than we started. This is the payment for sins that justice demands I’m talking about here.

This is kinda the opposite of the parable of the workers

I don’t think so. That parable to me means that sincere and complete repentance leads to Christ paying for our sins. Whether we start young or old that can happen. But I am saying that payment for sins only gets us back to the even. It only pays the interest but none of the principal. The real progress we make toward godhood is the repenting we do after we are justified. After a bad man becomes good, then the gospel also makes good men better. Over the eternities a good man that keeps getting better ends up exalted and just like God.

]]> By: Geoff J http://www.newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/comment-page-1/#comment-2607 Geoff J Mon, 04 Jul 2005 00:51:12 +0000 http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/the-parable-of-the-mortgage/101/#comment-2607 <strong>Justin</strong> -- Perhaps I'm showing my age with mortgage talk instead of student loans? But I think calling it a mansion works on several levels, including the scriptural promise of mansions. <strong>Last Lemming</strong> -- First, see the <a href="http://newcoolthang.com/index.php/2005/07/what-does-the-atonement-cover/100/" rel="nofollow">sister post to this one</a> I put up today. (They were one big post at first then I separated them.) Your objection that with enough time it could be done is basically the point I am trying to make. That as children of God we can do this with enough time and repentance. But the atonement enables us to use our agency to actually get ahead in this game. Some of your other objections are good ones. I will probably need to edit the post to fill some of the holes. I think you are right that the fact we can't pay the bills was no surprise. We knew about the plan to get fatherly help before we embarked. I should also imply that the job we take is a truly full-time one (24/7) so that the second job objection would lose its' teeth. The get a smaller house objection already has no teeth because that is like saying "don't try to actually be exalted and be like God". That doesn't fly in our theology. Justin — Perhaps I’m showing my age with mortgage talk instead of student loans? But I think calling it a mansion works on several levels, including the scriptural promise of mansions.

Last Lemming — First, see the sister post to this one I put up today. (They were one big post at first then I separated them.) Your objection that with enough time it could be done is basically the point I am trying to make. That as children of God we can do this with enough time and repentance. But the atonement enables us to use our agency to actually get ahead in this game.

Some of your other objections are good ones. I will probably need to edit the post to fill some of the holes. I think you are right that the fact we can’t pay the bills was no surprise. We knew about the plan to get fatherly help before we embarked. I should also imply that the job we take is a truly full-time one (24/7) so that the second job objection would lose its’ teeth. The get a smaller house objection already has no teeth because that is like saying “don’t try to actually be exalted and be like God”. That doesn’t fly in our theology.

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